Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by Jon Anderson

A nuisance at the championships was the ridiculous lengths that people are extending to in order to win the safety award. A fine line between safety and annoyance exists and the line was crossed. The award should be done away with completely or modified to include words like professionally or "not in a way that bothers everyone while contributing next to nothing in terms of safety."

Our team was thinking of talking to a safety adviser about this very problem.

[Woody1458]

I thought it was wuiet disrespectful when people were jumping over the wall to get tubes DURING the awards. but thats my opinion.

[FIRST JerseyKid]

Things that need improvement:

-My team only had 1 judge stop by our pit.
I know there job is hard but I don't know how awards are given out fairly if they don't talk to our students and see our robot.

-I'd like it if sundial could work in our pit.
I know they fixed it but we couldn't get a signal from our pit.

-Round schedule shouldn't have teams ever seeing each other but they did.

-They sped through the awards and didn't give them much value.

[Madison]

Some things here reflect our experiences at regional events, but echo some of what others have been saying about Atlanta, as well.

• I'd like to see a bit more consideration given to the pit layout. There were gigantic aisles between divisions and very narrow aisles within them. A column sat in the middle of the aisle in front of our pit, making it very difficult to get around. Perhaps it'd be possible to have "robot lanes," that people can avoid so your ankles aren't destroyed by overzealous kids with a heavy robot cart.
• Leave the practice fields within the pits assembled and open to teams until elimination rounds begin! In both Portland and Atlanta, we would have liked to give our alliance partners some practice climbing our lifts and had difficulty doing so because the practice field was disassembled.
• If the field is running ahead of schedule, STOP. There is no way for teams to know that the event is ahead of schedule and by running through matches so quickly, we're receiving even less of the precious time we need to repair and maintain the robots.
• The kids on our team would've liked the opportunity to spend some more time speaking with the judges. They felt that a single, short visit by one judge didn't give them enough chance to explain what they loved about their experiences and were upset that no others came by.
• In the future, can all teams avoid the destruction of entire Amazonian rainforests or something by printing about ten thousand fewer flyers reminding me to wear safety glasses?
• Carpet the major passageways within the pit, at the very least, if not the whole thing. Trade shows can manage it, so let's do the same. It'd make things a bit easier on everyone's feet and the aesthetic of the entire pit will improve dramatically. Make it seem like we're supposed to be there -- not that someone left a loading dock unlocked overnight and we snuck in.
• Place signs at the end of each aisle within the pit that list the range of team numbers represented. Instead of what you'd see in the supermarket -- cereal, cookies, soda -- it'd show, "Teams 503-353".
• The Galileo ranking information did not update at all between the start of lunch and nearly the end of the day, Friday. This is not so good for team morale (or scouting) when you've lost the matches that are displayed and won all of the rest.
• Navigating the hierarchy of volunteers and staff at the event can be baffling and waste enormous amounts of time. FIRST ought to consider having a 'team advocate' or similar available that is intimately familiar with the staff and volunteer positions and responsibilities at the event and can help teams with some of the more challenging problems and questions that sometimes come up during the event.
• Some folks need to remember that, despite all of the money spent and the hours worked, this is just a game and chill out a little bit. I left the event with a far lesser opinion of some teams and individuals than I had upon arrival. I should not have to make excuses for other teams' behavior while interacting with my team members.

I think these are small things, all considered, and the event is run well. It's just not... exciting. This is the second year that we've had members that felt like the Championship is less fun and less worthwhile than the regional events.

[Alexa Stott]

One thing that I would like to see improved is the way the matches are shot for the screens in the pits. I'm often in the pits for the entire event, and rarely am able to see matches in person. Throughout the day, I go over to the big screen and watch some matches when I get some spare time. It was very frustrating to not be able to see what was going on on the entire field. For example, I was watching one of our matches and we were making an attempt to climb our alliance partner's ramp. Just as we started to drive up it, they switched to a view of the opposite side of the field. They also did some really close up shots that, due to the nature of the rack, made it very hard to see what was going on.

[vhcook]

I watched the webcast of Curie for most of the competition, and the lack of audio during alliance selection was a big disappointment.

I would have preferred to see fewer ads and more of the field setup time, particularly since the ads didn't usually make a great deal of sense without the corresponding audio tracks. While I appreciate the need to recognize the sponsors, this wasn't a terribly effective way of doing it.

In addition to using split-screen for autonomous mode, it would be nice to do something similar for the endgame so you can see ramping/lifting action at both ends of the field or watch rack scoring by one alliance while the other alliance is ramping.

[ScoutingNerd175]

Originally Posted by M. Krass

• Leave the practice fields within the pits assembled and open to teams until elimination rounds begin! In both Portland and Atlanta, we would have liked to give our alliance partners some practice climbing our lifts and had difficulty doing so because the practice field was disassembled.

This point confuses me. Not because I don't think it is completely valid, but because I don't understand why it was happening. I worked the practice field all three days at the UTC regional. On Saturday I was asked to keep working the field until (I believe) 4:00. This is, obviously, near to the end of elimination rounds. I absolutely think that this is what should have been done. I know that, aside from giving alliances time to practice, there were 3-4 teams who spent a few hours working with their robots once teams in an alliance were no longer using it. I was happy to continue working the field during this time (although I will absolutely admit to leaving to watch ACES High play in the semis and finals, considering that they are my former team's sister team). I don't really understand why practice fields were being shut down before eliminations even began at any event. I can see shutting them down once eliminations have begun at the championships because it is the last FIRST event of the season, and teams can't really bring their robots back to work on in between finals matches. But I don't understand why, when at UTC we left the practice field open until 4:00, the fields were closed before 1:00 at other regionals or championships.

[Tom Bottiglieri]

Originally Posted by ScoutingNerd175

TBut I don't understand why, when at UTC we left the practice field open until 4:00, the fields were closed before 1:00 at other regionals or championships.

I can only assume FIRST pays for space in the GWCC on a daily basis, and every measure possible needed to be taken to get the pits cleaned and packed by Saturday night. Obviously you can't start ripping down pit areas while teams are still competing, so the practice field seems like a logical place to start.

[dangerousdave]

Originally Posted by vadyr

As a veteran team that has attended ten Championship Events, we were disappointed to find that our experience this past weekend in Atlanta was not all that we had hoped. There are several improvements that could be made to better the experience for all teams:

......
Thirdly, the divisions are too large. Having more divisions (i.e. six divisions) would lessen the amount of teams in each division and allow each team to participate in more matches. Scouting would be more manageable for less experienced teams. This year, there were six or seven regionals occurring simultaneously each week. Next year there will be 41 regionals in five weeks, averaging to over 8 fields a week. At least one week will require 9 fields. Thus, FIRST will have enough fields for each of the 6 divisions, two practice fields, and the Einstein field.

......
Finally, the venue and location are suboptimal. The Georgia Dome venue is impersonal compared to most regionals. The large distances between the stands, fields, and pits fragment teams. The city of Atlanta is not an appropriate location for several reasons. This year, the team witnessed several crimes. A week before the Championship Event, a shooting occurred at the CNN Center, where some teams stayed. On Wednesday, one of our team parents witnessed a drug bust outside of our hotel, the Marriott Renaissance. On Thursday, an armed man was shot by World Conference Center police in Centennial Park, the planned site for the FIRST Finale Party, which was also witnessed by a team engineer. On Friday, police chased a robber/murderer through the lobby of our hotel and we had to remain on lock down for several hours. We also witnessed several crimes on the MARTA rail line (drug deals, theft, etc.). All of these situations put all teams at risk.

Hopefully these issues will be considered by the FIRST administration in order to make future Championship Events as rewarding as possible for all participating teams.

Sincerely,

Nate Thomas
President

Corey Koenig
President, Treasurer

Bobby Trotta
Vice President, Driver

Nate, Corey & Bobby...I had previously responded to your comment in the Championship positive thread where you cross posted, which I assume you know you are not supposed to do. I have deleted my post there and moved it here. Anyway, sorry that your experience was not what you had hoped for.

Your post about needing 6 divisional fields is a little confusing. I assume you are talking about the Championship event but then you talk about the 41 regionals and I am not sure how that relates to having enough room for 6 divisions at Championships.

Where are you going to put 6 divisional fields in any enclosed venue in the world? Remember that there are JFLL, FLL & FVC events that need space at the same time as FRC also. You must also have room for all of the team members and guests in raised stands close to each field. I think that most FRC teams were happy to have 7 matches as they may have been expecting less with so many teams in the competition. Be happy that your team was able to attend as there were some teams that could not get a spot.

As far as Atlanta goes, can you tell me where is a venue the size of the GA Dome that is not impersonal compared to the small arenas that the regionals are held in? The distance between the pits and the field was improved greatly following the first year in Atlanta in 2004. With an event this size you are going to have to walk much longer distances than at a regional.

I have no doubt that the crimes you mentioned occurred and they are regretable. I am very happy that as far as I know, there were not any First teams directly involved in any of them. You appear to be from somewhere in PA so can I assume that you have been to Pittsburgh or Philadelphia? Do you not think that the crime is not the same or worse there or in any other large metropolitan city which is necessary to hold an event this size? Yes it was terrible that what you mentioned happened but I believe you will unfortunately see that in any large city.

Yes as you can see, I am a local Atlanta person but I think that others that are not will agree that for the most part, Atlanta has the infrastructure to handle this event and in a friendly manner. There are very few cities that have a domed football sized stadium next to a convention center, over 10,000 downtown hotel rooms, reasonably priced restaurants right next door, a rapid rail transit system to get you there from the worlds busiest airport.

I hope your team will return to Atlanta on April 16-19, 2008 or on April 15-18, 2009 for the Championship event. I hope your opinion of this location will change for the better. I am sorry that you appear to have not enjoyed your time here.

Dave

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by dangerousdave

I have no doubt that the crimes you mentioned occurred and they are regretable. I am very happy that as far as I know, there were not any First teams directly involved in any of them. You appear to be from somewhere in PA so can I assume that you have been to Pittsburgh or Philadelphia? Do you not think that the crime is not the same or worse there or in any other large metropolitan city which is necessary to hold an event this size? Yes it was terrible that what you mentioned happened but I believe you will unfortunately see that in any large city.

http://www.toronto.ca/quality_of_life/safety.htm

We all know the Championship won't move to Toronto anytime soon. But assuming that Atlanta's crime rate is typical for a large metropolitan city may be a bit excessive.

As for some weak anecdotal evidence, I always felt safe at EPCOT.

[GRaduns340]

I really wasn't at all upset with the walk. As much as we joked and groaned about soar legs - and they did hurt - the venue is nice, and it could be an awful lot worse somewhere else.

If there is one complaint I have it's that as a member of the drive team for 340, and not having long to eat lunch, I only had a real lunch one day of the three days of competition. The lines were so long and slow that by the time I made it back from a match or talking with other drive teams I didn't have time to get a lunch before our next match. I don't know how that could be fixed, but I like my food, and not having it bothered me a little.

[dangerousdave]

Originally Posted by Karthik

http://www.toronto.ca/quality_of_life/safety.htm
We all know the Championship won't move to Toronto anytime soon. But assuming that Atlanta's crime rate is typical for a large metropolitan city may be a bit excessive.

Karthik, I will agree with your overall statement and would amend my post to "United States city" if I was still allowed to edit it. The table you provided has some very favorable statistics toward Toronto. Thank you for making that point.

Having been to Toronto, Montreal, Winnipeg, Calgary, Edmonton & Vancouver I can agree they are beautiful and overall safer than similar per capita cities in the USA. I would be extremely happy to go to the Championship event in Toronto. For reasons (weather, passports etc.) detailed in other threads here that might not happen anytime soon.

It is very difficult to find very current statistics on crime however I found an older one that mentions muggings, car thefts and assaults which are not shown in the table you provided. That article shows Toronto has more of those crimes per capita than NYC.

Again, overall there is no doubt that your typical large Canadian city has a lower overall violent crime rate per capita than a similar USA city. Canada is a beautiful and safe country and I jump at the chance to travel there.

Originally Posted by Bongle

I was showing how the lack of confetti might not be a negative thing. Otherwise you'd have a 2006 negatives thread where I posted about how the confetti balloons were annoying, followed by a 2007 negatives thread where someone said they wished there was confetti. Poor FIRST would be all confused.

Bongle, Sorry I misunderstood your post.

Originally Posted by Bongle

...which reminds me: It would be really nice to have the match schedules posted in such a way that we don't have to pester poor dangerousdave all friday to get our team's schedule. If you're going to have a webcast, the schedules should be online.

Hey, I did not feel pestered. If I didn't want to help I didn't have to. I imagined if I was stuck at home how would I feel? Sorry I couldn't help more. It was difficult fighting for position when they posted the 2 sets of papers showing each fields matches. Thankfully someone soon posted all of the matches on CD. Dave
Dave

[Lemaymk 237]

There needs to be more things to do after the competition is over for the day, more places to eat, other than Papa John's, and better weather too...lol....there are also alot of little things that are wrong with Atlanta itself, like trans. and sanitation....

[dsmoker]

Let me start off by saying that this was our team's first trip to Atlanta (we never qualified before and barely raised the money once we did). On the whole it was an excellent experience, with a few minor drawbacks:

1. We were initially told there would be a shuttle from our hotel to the convention center. There was not. It was about a 20 min. walk, which seemed a lot longer at the end of a long day.

2. The Georgia Dome staff was very nice and polite, but inconsistent about letting food into the dome. At first they would not; then they apparently changed their policy and were allowing food to be brought in (thank goodness considering the ridiculous prices inside; over $3.00 for a 20 oz. soda!!!)

3. There was no where in the pit area to sit down. At the UTC Regional, which we attend each year, there are tables and chairs to the side of the pit area so teams can sit and even eat during strategy sessions once alliances are formed. Our drive team never got to eat before the quarterfinals, and if we had won wouldn't have gotten to eat for quite some time, as no food could be brought into the pits. Knowing this, should we qualify again (and have enough money) I would plan to do what I saw some teams do, that is design toolboxes to double as seating areas for the pit crew.

That being said, everything else was wonderful. Thanks to team 2054 for choosing us in the first round as an alliance partner, and congrats to our other alliance partner, MOE, on the Chairman's Award.

[Kevin Kolodziej]

Of the nine championship events I've been to now, I truly believe this was the worst run one of them all. Thats not to say that there weren't tons of good things going on, but there were quite a few things that bothered me greatly:

1. Team Forums. Nice to see that FIRST made an effort to listen, but did they really expect anything when they schedule the forums during uncrating and the driver's meetings?? I don't know if the Thursday session was better, but the Wednesday session was very poorly attended. The message was certainly clear though.

2. The complete LACK of fanfare. This is the CHAMPIONSHIP EVENT! I can understand not having the ballons because they blocked the upper deck, but there should be SOMETHING that makes this event feel like something special. Maybe there were things cut out because we were running late - no top 10 list? ??

3. Woodie Flowers Ceremony. Shouldn't the things Dan did (Congrats by the way!!) have been read before he was announced as the winner? At first, I was very upset that simply his name was announced and thats it. What happened to the list of finalists that used to be displayed? Perhaps the WFFA winners could be asked to stand and be recognized. It just seems to me that this award is being given less attention than it deserves. I completely agree with the other comments about there needing to be bios or essays of the winners in the HOF.

4. Pits. You can't hear the announcements down there at all. Setup seemed okay to me though, and practice fields were well managed.

5. Scheduling. I know we're saying goodbye to the Algorithim of Death, so hopefully I'll never have to complain about seeing several of the same teams multiple times again. However...I hope the new algorithim is better at spacing as well. There was a team in Curie that was in match 81 and 85 - HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN WITH 86 TEAMS??? Finally, why did we not get a match schedule in the pits until 8:30 on Friday...after the first match was supposed to bed queued? Its not as if the schedule wasn't generated...Archimedes was displayed on the pit screens for nearly an hour before everyone else saw thier schedules..

6. Judging. I feel sorry for the teams that only saw one judge for a few minutes. At least you saw one judge. Team 1675 had a group of judges stop at the pit, give us a sticker to put on our sign without saying anything related to judging, and said they'd be back shortly. They never returned. Unforgiveable. We paid the same entry fee as everyone else and expected the same opportunities to tell our stories and show our stuff as everyone else.

7. Wrap Party. I applaud the effort to move the whole thing indoors. It went well and the performances we did see were pretty neat. However, my kids were really looking forward to seeing DSK, and were very sad to find out they had left the stage before we even left our seats in the dome. We were also under the impression (perhaps falsely...not sure where the rumor came from) that there would be a laser show at the end in place of the fireworks..but no such show occured. FIRST should also be aware that people were turned away from the games without warning at 9:45 after standing in line for quite some time. The staff should have closed the lines at 9:30 and given everyone in line their turn...not abruptly close the game before the event is supposed to end.

8. Bring back Thursday night qualifying and/or reduce the number of teams. Lets do some math. Next year there are 41 regionals. Assuming the same format next year, 6 teams per regional qualify. Thats 246 teams. Then we have the six remaining legacy teams. Thats 252. We now have 14 HOF teams other than legacy teams. That brings us to 266. Add two for the winners (190 already is on the list as a legacy team) and we have 268. Assume the same stats, adjusted for next year, with 45 regionals, and for the 2009 Championship we're at 294ish. Obviously there are going to be some teams that qualify multiple times, so the actual number will drop. Assuming worst case though, we're looking at 67 in 2008 and 72 in 2009 for teams in divisions, without open registration. That works for me...maybe you'd get 8 or 9 matches. Otherwise, play a round or two on Thursday night. If this event is supposed to determine an overall game champion (amongst other things), The best teams need to have a chance to rise to the top. Luck can never be eliminated, but it can be reduced.