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#106
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved
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While I know many judges are great people, many times the ones you go out to either aren't covering your award or aren't covering your division. If you didn't get an award on the regional level, you PROBABLY won't be looked at on the Championship level. There are 90 judges this year, and frankly, they have a lot to do in a little amount of time. And they're doing this for free. Last edited by Joe Matt : 04-16-2007 at 09:58 PM. |
#107
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Items 1-6 of things to improve
1. The match algorithm must be quietly put to rest out in the pasture. It's a ridiculous system, no random or fair aspect to it. The ONLY part of the OLD scoring system that actually worked was the match algorithm. FIRST fixed all the parts of the previous system that were broken (they deserve kudos for finally getting a scoring system that worked well the entire season) and then they unfortunately fixed the only thing that wasn't broken, the match generator. Go back to the algorithm that the teams (aka the customers) actually liked.
2. Woodie Flowers Award Winners must have a wall in the Hall of Fame. This is SOOOO obvious it is dumbfounding that it doesn't exist (It's been recommended/requested for 2-3 years) 3. FVC closing ceremonies need to be improved, much like the FLL closing ceremonies were greatly improved. 4. Teams must get more matches. Schools and sponsors are charged way too much money to attend the championships to only play a few times. As someone else stated at the FVC event, if you have more undefeated teams then playoff alliances - then something is seriously wrong. You can not claim something is a "competition" when a team can go undefeated and potentially still not make the playoffs. The options of starting FRC matches on Thursday and extending FVC matches to Saturday is a good ideas - even if JUST ONE OR TWO MORE MATCHES. 5. Bring back the honorable mention list for the Chairman's Award and highlight the winner more. Those teams have done more for FIRST and FIRST growth than anyone, and deserve to be recognized and celebrated for all their hard work. 6. BIG ONE. Rule enforcement & consistency. The Yellow/Red card experiment was a colossal failure. They typically weren't given, there was no consistency in how rules were enforced, and they frequently meant nothing many times when given (an action that changes the outcome from a loss into a victory, that receives a 10 point penalty, but still results in a win for the violator is not a penalty). This is not the fault of the refs (they are volunteers who don't get adequate training, are trying their best and have the best intentions) or the teams who break the rules (they wouldn't do it if the rules were enforced). This was the first year I can recall when many events and divisions were decided by the referees instead of by the teams on the field, and that should never be the case. A very wise and accomplished mentor/coach in FIRST said to me "many refs, once the playoffs start, feel they don't want to make a call that determines the outcome of a match....what they don't realize is that by NOT making a call that is indeed a rule, they ARE determining the outcome of the match....only they are punishing the alliance that didn't break the rules instead of the alliance that did". I think he put it very well and I wish all the refs were trained to take that into consideration when a team is flipped, damaged or pinned by actions that violate the rules of the game. Important point - For years now, FIRST has allocated a budget to training Judge Advisors and having many of them go to multiple events to ensure consistency. It has been requested for a few years now that FIRST realize that the training and consistency of referees is just as important as judges (if not more important). FIRST should allocate an adequate budget to train a core group of Head Referees each year before the Regionals start, cover their travel and expenses to attend multiple events so that a well trained and consistent group of refs will be at each event and on each Championship field. They must be on the same page regarding was is/isn't a DQ, how rules should be enforced and when warnings should be given - and it needs to be that way in from week 1 until end of the Championship finals. It directly impacts the integrity of the program and the experience teams have after all the hard work they've put in over the year - the teams (again...the customers) deserve this and this year they did not get it. |
#108
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Things to improve part 2...items 7-12
7. Go back to showing the rankings on the big screen on each field in between matches. Playing the adds for the sponsors is a good idea and practice, but maybe at least alternate - after one match show the ads, after the next match show the rankings, repeat.
8. The serpentine system experiment needs to end and go back to the regular draft order. Again, the C in FRC is for "competition". There is a reason they're called "qualifying matches" and why there are rankings...so teams can try to better their position and chances for the playoffs. There is no rational for punishing a team for seeding # 1 - they earned the right to pick first in each round. 9. The safety award. Great idea and worthy award to have. But the best ideas, if implemented poorly, are no longer good ideas. The award as it exists now is out of control and needs to be reined in - many have pointed out the examples, so I won't go into detail. It should be an award, but it needs to be fixed and treated like the rest of the awards. When more time, resources and judges are spent on any single award other than the Chairman's Award....it should be a signal that it needs to be revisited. 10. FIRST needs to let teams know that there is a wrap video at the end of the Championship Closing Ceremony. Those are great videos, teams love to see them and yet the stands were almost empty when it played because FIRST never told teams it was going to play. The guys who put that video together deserved to have it played to a full house, and the teams who paid $5,000 to be there deserved to see the montage of their experience. 11. FIRST needs to correctly publicize the agendas. Everyone knows at this point that it is NEVER a surprise that the closing ceremonies go "long". In fact, they don't go over the expected time at all - they take that long every year. Yet every year, FIRST prints that the playoffs will end earlier then they and all the teams know it will. Same at the regionals - we all know the playoffs do not end at 3pm....they haven't for years. Yet they still print that in the agenda, which is very bad when sponsors, guests and speakers make plans to watch the playoffs (or speak) and have to miss the end of the finals or the closing ceremonies because they made their schedule around the FIRST public agenda. End the ceremonies when you say you will, or say you will end them later - people just want an honest expectation of what to plan around and expect. 12. If your closing ceremonies go over the stated time, then the after party must be postponed appropriately. There is no excuse for asking performers to prepare to entertain all the teams, then force them to cut their act short and start before the teams arrive. That is not professional or gracious, and should never happen. Not to mention, all the teams who actually stayed at the closing ceremonies didn't get to see the entertainment at the team party that they were charged good money for - does that mean they get a partial refund? Of course not - so if they are going to charge for the ticket to attend, then they shouldn't start it until the ceremonies are over. my .025 cents Hope everyone has a wonderful off season! |
#109
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved
Oh, I also wanted to comment about the "free tubes". While I didn't hear the announcment, I do think that that it was a good idea (it was also hilarious to watch the girls, I think on Curie, whatever field was behind Galileo, stuff themselves in inner tubes
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#110
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved
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(BTW, I'm not trying to spam the thread with multiple posts, and feel free to delete this if I've done something bad, but I don't know how to put a quote in my previous post! ![]() |
#111
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![]() Let me start off by saying that this was our team's first trip to Atlanta (we never qualified before and barely raised the money once we did). On the whole it was an excellent experience, with a few minor drawbacks:
1. We were initially told there would be a shuttle from our hotel to the convention center. There was not. It was about a 20 min. walk, which seemed a lot longer at the end of a long day. 2. The Georgia Dome staff was very nice and polite, but inconsistent about letting food into the dome. At first they would not; then they apparently changed their policy and were allowing food to be brought in (thank goodness considering the ridiculous prices inside; over $3.00 for a 20 oz. soda!!!) 3. There was no where in the pit area to sit down. At the UTC Regional, which we attend each year, there are tables and chairs to the side of the pit area so teams can sit and even eat during strategy sessions once alliances are formed. Our drive team never got to eat before the quarterfinals, and if we had won wouldn't have gotten to eat for quite some time, as no food could be brought into the pits. Knowing this, should we qualify again (and have enough money) I would plan to do what I saw some teams do, that is design toolboxes to double as seating areas for the pit crew. That being said, everything else was wonderful. Thanks to team 2054 for choosing us in the first round as an alliance partner, and congrats to our other alliance partner, MOE, on the Chairman's Award. |
#112
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved
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That said, I thought the Georgia Dome used caution tape excessively and inappropriately. Caution tape should only be used to signify presence of a hazard and not to, for instance, reserve seats or keep people out of an area you don't want to clean. A different sign/tape should be used. The people who cross my caution tape at my hazardous waste cleanups are risking their lives (and sometimes mine); the Georgia Dome staff seems to be training them to do this. Also the Georgia Dome staff needs training about how the event is organized. I wanted to volunteer at the event and received correct instructions from staff about how to get to volunteer registration, but that entrance was closed unless you had a badge, but the staff member there gave me correct directions to another entrance that was closed unless you had a badge, but the staff member there gave me correct directions to another entrance that was closed unless you had a badge, but the staff member there gave me correct directions to another entrance that was closed unless you had a badge, but the staff member there gave me correct directions to another entrance that was closed . Finally I met a bunch of guys from the NASA machine shop who were having the same problem, and eventually we ended up entering a closed entrance, but since I was frustrated and the event didn't seem desparate I didn't volunteer. Also I think they could put the jumbo trons at the ends of the stadium to good use by displaying, for example, the rankings and match schedule. I enjoyed seeing all the great teams and robots at the event, but I think the regionals I have attended were about as much fun because the individual teams got more playing time. Rich Vogel (using his wife's account) |
#113
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved
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BTW, I'm not complaining about the Championship no longer being held at EPCOT. The event has become too large for the temporary facilities we had there. Also, while the event may not be as much fun as it was at EPCOT, it may be better for the intended purpose of FIRST, and the football arenas are definitely better for watching matches than the temporary facilities at EPCOT. |
#114
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved
Of the nine championship events I've been to now, I truly believe this was the worst run one of them all. Thats not to say that there weren't tons of good things going on, but there were quite a few things that bothered me greatly:
1. Team Forums. Nice to see that FIRST made an effort to listen, but did they really expect anything when they schedule the forums during uncrating and the driver's meetings?? I don't know if the Thursday session was better, but the Wednesday session was very poorly attended. The message was certainly clear though. 2. The complete LACK of fanfare. This is the CHAMPIONSHIP EVENT! I can understand not having the ballons because they blocked the upper deck, but there should be SOMETHING that makes this event feel like something special. Maybe there were things cut out because we were running late - no top 10 list? ?? 3. Woodie Flowers Ceremony. Shouldn't the things Dan did (Congrats by the way!!) have been read before he was announced as the winner? At first, I was very upset that simply his name was announced and thats it. What happened to the list of finalists that used to be displayed? Perhaps the WFFA winners could be asked to stand and be recognized. It just seems to me that this award is being given less attention than it deserves. I completely agree with the other comments about there needing to be bios or essays of the winners in the HOF. 4. Pits. You can't hear the announcements down there at all. Setup seemed okay to me though, and practice fields were well managed. 5. Scheduling. I know we're saying goodbye to the Algorithim of Death, so hopefully I'll never have to complain about seeing several of the same teams multiple times again. However...I hope the new algorithim is better at spacing as well. There was a team in Curie that was in match 81 and 85 - HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN WITH 86 TEAMS??? Finally, why did we not get a match schedule in the pits until 8:30 on Friday...after the first match was supposed to bed queued? Its not as if the schedule wasn't generated...Archimedes was displayed on the pit screens for nearly an hour before everyone else saw thier schedules.. 6. Judging. I feel sorry for the teams that only saw one judge for a few minutes. At least you saw one judge. Team 1675 had a group of judges stop at the pit, give us a sticker to put on our sign without saying anything related to judging, and said they'd be back shortly. They never returned. Unforgiveable. We paid the same entry fee as everyone else and expected the same opportunities to tell our stories and show our stuff as everyone else. 7. Wrap Party. I applaud the effort to move the whole thing indoors. It went well and the performances we did see were pretty neat. However, my kids were really looking forward to seeing DSK, and were very sad to find out they had left the stage before we even left our seats in the dome. We were also under the impression (perhaps falsely...not sure where the rumor came from) that there would be a laser show at the end in place of the fireworks..but no such show occured. FIRST should also be aware that people were turned away from the games without warning at 9:45 after standing in line for quite some time. The staff should have closed the lines at 9:30 and given everyone in line their turn...not abruptly close the game before the event is supposed to end. 8. Bring back Thursday night qualifying and/or reduce the number of teams. Lets do some math. Next year there are 41 regionals. Assuming the same format next year, 6 teams per regional qualify. Thats 246 teams. Then we have the six remaining legacy teams. Thats 252. We now have 14 HOF teams other than legacy teams. That brings us to 266. Add two for the winners (190 already is on the list as a legacy team) and we have 268. Assume the same stats, adjusted for next year, with 45 regionals, and for the 2009 Championship we're at 294ish. Obviously there are going to be some teams that qualify multiple times, so the actual number will drop. Assuming worst case though, we're looking at 67 in 2008 and 72 in 2009 for teams in divisions, without open registration. That works for me...maybe you'd get 8 or 9 matches. Otherwise, play a round or two on Thursday night. If this event is supposed to determine an overall game champion (amongst other things), The best teams need to have a chance to rise to the top. Luck can never be eliminated, but it can be reduced. |
#115
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved
I'd vote for 1, maybe 2 practice rounds Thursday. Then, switch to qualifying rounds after the lunch break. This way, teams get more matches that count. As it stands, teams at the Championship have competed at at least one regional, so they should have a robot that functions pretty well, unless they are performing some complete design change and over haul.
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#116
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved
Those who have only attended one regional have not had that much time to make any major edits that might have been needed to their robots. We got out on the field for all of our practice matches, and real matches, but I understand that there might be some teams that really need this time to make their planned changes to their robots.
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#117
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved
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#118
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved
For those complaining about the schedule, yes I'm among them, there is another thread specifically about that issue. Dave does a good job of trying to lay out the situation there. Read that please. The system is flawed, they know it, and it will be gone next year.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=56355 Page 3 contains the explanation |
#119
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved
In the pits I didn't hear one single announcement ever. Were there every any, or we are just expected to know and figure out things?
On the field, I thought the "let's hold a flag pole across it" method of determining bonus points was pretty hokey at times. |
#120
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Re: Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Needs To Be Improved
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Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Championship 2007 - Atlanta - What Went Well or What You Liked | dangerousdave | Championship Event | 38 | 04-22-2007 11:07 AM |
FVC World Championship still needs volunteers! | vavex | Championship Event | 0 | 03-18-2007 05:09 PM |
Atlanta needs a Segway rental facility!!! | Elgin Clock | Championship Event | 7 | 04-05-2006 11:42 AM |
Championship Event in Atlanta for 2007 = Confirmed (possibly 2008 & 2009 too) | Elgin Clock | Championship Event | 18 | 08-23-2005 11:37 PM |