Curie Semifinal 1 - 3, what happened?

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Karthik

[color=black]

Fact: Members of Team 48's driveteam, led by the Drive Coach, celebrated when 1114's arm snapped off. This was witnessed by myself, and numerous members of other teams. If I hadn't seen this with my own eyes, I would not believe it myself.

I saw this too (I was watching curie elims to support 330) and wasn't sure as to why they were chelebrating...

I am sure they were celebrating, but I can't for sure say that they were cheering because they broke 1114.

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by FreedomForce

if you watch the video until the end, you will notice, that if there were 3 more seconds given on the field, we wouldn't be talking about this, instead we would be talking about how great of a team 1114 is, facing all that adversity and still able to lift MARS up.

How close they came was almost amazing, it just goes to show HOW GREAT 1114 really was.

also I wanted to know this, im trying to figure this out, but i couldn't find it anywhere, if that ringer that wasn't scored, if that counted, what would have been the final score, that also goes for the 469 descored ringer.

TIA

Neither the 1114 ringer, nor the 469 ringer would have changed the outcome on their own. If both had been scored it would have created a row of 6 for Blue for a final score of 64-30.

I was not at the Championships, so my comments will be contained to what can be found in the webcast footage.

From the webcast footage, their is not enough coverage of 1114's arm being removed to make any type of judgment on whether it was intentional or not.

The descoring of the ringer by 469 also cannot be seen clearly. When the camera cuts away 469 is still in possession of the tube and when it comes back the tube is being taken off the rack. It is not entirely clear, but it does look like the tube was released at some point and is being taken off from a different angle. I cannot be certain if the tube was fully clear of the 469 mechanism to qualify as a score, but judging by what I can see combined with accounts in this thread that do not appear to have been disputed, this ringer should have counted.

The 1114 ringer definitely looks to be supported by the stinger initially. The point that is not caught on the webcast is the final position of the ringer after being jostled by 469. You can see 469 hit the ringer as they descore their own, but you cannot see if this causes it to clear the stinger or not.

[Arefin Bari]

I was down on the field watching that match with Koko Ed, Joel J. and Travis Hoffman from team 48. This is what I have to say after spending some time with the drive team of 1114.

1) I don't want to be yelled at if I was a coach and I went down there with my driveteam to seek for answers to "Why isn't the ringer scored," or "How were the calls made?"

2) After our machine (that we put our whole heart into for 6 weeks) breaks, I don't want to be questioned about the quality of my robot.

3) I believe everyone was watching the finals on einstein. Please make the playing field leveled.

In my 6 years of involvement in FIRST, this is the first time there were many complains and mistakes. There has to be something done so the kids can enjoy/play the game without having to go back in their pit and cry.

[Kate00]

Originally Posted by Arefin Bari

3) I believe everyone was watching the finals on einstein. Please make the playing field leveled.

Originally Posted by Jason Morrella

The DQ called on Einstein for tipping was nowhere near as obvious or intentional as the non call on Archimedes. It's one thing not to call an obvious DQ, but an entirely different thing to then call a DQ for something not nearly as flagrant.

Just speculating here, but perhaps the refs heard about the incidents on both Archimedes and Curie, and may have tried to improve the quality of the reffing for the finals on Einstein. If this is true, I commend them for realizing their mistakes and trying to fix them, and my question then becomes why this only came up for the last two rounds of play in the entire season, and not after 37 regional competitions.

[Corey Balint]

Originally Posted by Kate771

Just speculating here, but perhaps the refs heard about the incidents on both Archimedes and Curie, and may have tried to improve the quality of the reffing for the finals on Einstein. If this is true, I commend them for realizing their mistakes and trying to fix them, and my question then becomes why this only came up for the last two rounds of play in the entire season, and not after 37 regional competitions.

I know I have definitely discussed these reffing issues numerous times before, most notably in the Palmetto Regional thread.

[cziggy343]

Originally Posted by Kate771

Just speculating here, but perhaps the refs heard about the incidents on both Archimedes and Curie, and may have tried to improve the quality of the reffing for the finals on Einstein. If this is true, I commend them for realizing their mistakes and trying to fix them, and my question then becomes why this only came up for the last two rounds of play in the entire season, and not after 37 regional competitions.

there were definantly questionable calls during the 37 regionals, but the mistakes are amplifide once teams get to the championships. many stories could be told about the questionable call at the regionals too.

[Nick 1523]

First of all i was actually there on the field and saw the whole match. What actually happened was (and it's kinda hard to see on the recording but) we (1523) were supposed to play defense while the our partners scored on the rack. While 1114 was being pinned up against the rack their coach was yelling the count for pinning and he got to 10 before they let up and when they backed away it was not for 3 seconds which as i believe is the required amount. As a result of this pinning, backing off and pinning again 1114's arm got wedged up in between the tube and spider leg and was snapped at the joint. 1114 then backed up and broke the wire connections which were the only things left holding the arm on. Now that I look back on it, they probably should have stayed put so as to not get a penalty for "littering the field" but that wouldn't have changed the outcome anyway. There were definitely some bad calls also including the removed keeper which was obviously passed the stinger (or at least it looked that way from behind the driver's station). Over all I'm happy we did as good as we did and I don't hold any grudges or anything... Well that's pretty much what happened and even though we tried to protest it the judge said that it was "not excessive roughness" and the rest is history.

[David Brinza]

Originally Posted by Nick 1523

There were definitely some bad calls also including the removed keeper which was obviously passed the stinger (or at least it looked that way from behind the driver's station).

The referee was completely correct in removing the keeper - it was partially supported by the foot, the leg and the 1114 gripper. This is clearly visible in the video clip in the first post of this thread. I was on the floor at Curie (right where Dean Kamen addressed the crowd), and my immediate reaction was that it didn't count.

Per the definitions in the game manual (7.1.2):

HANGING: a GAME PIECE is considered HANGING if its’ weight is fully supported by a SPIDER LEG and it has been released by the POSSESSING ROBOT. A GAME PIECE is not considered HANGING if it is supported by the SPIDER FOOT.

[Scott team 48]

Im not going to touch on the unfortunate incident during sf 1-3, i really can't word it any better than Travis did. However the issue about Canada has me disturbed:

Originally Posted by Kate771

Myself and several other people witnessed 48 trying to break 1114's arm off in Toronto. They then went through the pits bragging about their defense on 1114. They also played defense on 1114 during practice matches both at GTR and Championships, which was clearly witnessed.

48 was not trying to break 1114's arm of in Toronto, nor were we trying to break it off in Atlanta. In Toronto we played defense against 1114, in our opinion they were the strongest offensive robot there, so to play effective defense against such a strong team is something to be proud of. We were proud of playing effective D on 1114 because they were so strong, not because we wanted to break them, it is not, and has never been our intention to break any robot that we are on the field against.

Now, you can accept that as the truth, or you can continue believing that we set out with the sole intent of breaking 1114, who up until this incident we were proud to call close friends. I only hope that in the future we can call them friends again.

[slickguy2007]

I saw this match personally, so....

From what I saw, 48 was playing heavy defense on 1114. They knew the kinds of scores 1114 could put up especially when left alone, so 48 was pushing 1114 however they could. 1114 was first being pushed into the rack and their arm started bending backwards(the rack was being pushed). 1114 got free and started to place a tube on the middle row, and that's when it happened. 1114 was placing a tube on a middle row spider leg from an angle. 1114's base was being pushed forward by 48 but their arm was still hanging onto the tube which was in place on the spider leg. 1114 was close to dropping the tube on, all they had to do was let go but before they had a chance their arm snapped off.

This is what I remember.

edit//
The tube did not count because the arm was still attached to the tube.

[PandaMan]

Originally Posted by slickguy2007

The tube did not count because the arm was still attached to the tube.

I thought that rule had changed, as the head ref on our field told me that as long as the tube was supported by the rack, the tube would be counted as scores (Refer to QF 1-1 on Galileo).

[slickguy2007]

Originally Posted by PandaMan

I thought that rule had changed, as the head ref on our field told me that as long as the tube was supported by the rack, the tube would be counted as scores (Refer to QF 1-1 on Galileo).

I believe that's just how they scored it. I am not sure what rules they were going by(Funny I even had to say this).

[xzvrw2]

Originally Posted by slickguy2007

This is what I remember.

edit//
The tube did not count because the arm was still attached to the tube.

my whole thing is, the arm wasnt attached to the robot any more tho, so how could it have been apart of the robot?

[slickguy2007]

Originally Posted by xzvrw2

my whole thing is, the arm wasnt attached to the robot any more tho, so how could it have been apart of the robot?

I agree, I am just stating what happened.

[XaulZan11]

Here is my prospective of the match. I was the human player on 1732.

I didn't even know 1114 broke thier arm until after the eliminations when someone from my team told me. While I wasn't specifically watching 48 and 1114, I wouldn't assume that 48 knew that they were about to break 1114 arm. As most of you probably know, its very hard to see whats going on on the other side of the rack.

I also heard or saw no celebrating from 48 after 1114's arm broke. Standing right next to them during the match and after the match, they didn't say any thing about breaking thier arm. They also showed great gracious professionalism throughout the eliminations, also. After we got eliminated by the 2nd seeded alliance in the finals, 48's coach reminded the whole alliance to shake hands with the other alliance and congradulate them. I would be suprised if they did celebrate breaking thier arm in anyway. However, if they did intentially break or celebrate the breaking of the arm, that's awful and shouldn't be tolerated. If that is the case, I would like to apologize to 1114 and the rest of thier alliance.

It's one of those things you hate to see happen, especially in the elimination rounds. As it has been stated before, we shouldn't jump to conclusions or start rumors that are not true.