2 Speed Transmissions in the Future

[JesseK]

I think in some instances it could be better for the team overall to figure out HOW to make a 2-speed transmission in their offseason, regardless of what next year's game could be. The fact that the mechanical team learns what it takes to design and manufacture a complex dynamic system with any sort of quality will take them alot further through the season than if they did not. They can translate that knowledge into building dynamic manipulators (etc) for whatever game is thrown at them.

That said, one of our team's offseason projects for the fall is to make a 2-speed prototype transmission. Details haven't been worked out yet, but we know that our '07 robot could have had more maneuverability or power had we been able to shift this year, hence that is our D/T improvement for next year.

If a team has these transmissions available in the KoP's, then they will hardly (if ever) be motivated to take steps in designing and creating their own. Hence, I don't think 2-speeds should be in the KoP. The BB gearbox worked for 1885 in 35 matches + practice this year and allowed us to focus our efforts on other parts of the robot. I believe that is sufficient for the expectations a team should have for the kit of parts -- nothing more.

I have a feeling you'll be seeing a lot more 2 speeds in the upcoming games. With the growth of FIRST, the probability is fairly high that the field will remain decently open. However, a 2 speed can be very useful even if there is an obstacle.

Also, the 2 speed is becoming even more viable for the average team. I currently have a design that should be prototyped soon(ish) of a sub $100 tranny, designed specifically for 6 inch wheels.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by Alex Cormier

So are you saying that team's wouldn't agree upon adding $500 to the reg. fee to be able to have durable (not BB!) trans in the kits from years to come?

I would figure many teams would jump to it if all they had to do was pay an extra $500 to the reg. fee to get those in the kits.

I doubt it, especially if they are paying $500 for an added feature (2-speed) that they might not even want to use (or use at all if it is pneumatically actuated).
$6000 is plenty, and even a semi-reliable transmission such as Banebots is much much better than what was used to be provided.

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by Alex Cormier

So are you saying that team's wouldn't agree upon adding $500 to the reg. fee to be able to have durable (not BB!) trans in the kits from years to come?

I would figure many teams would jump to it if all they had to do was pay an extra $500 to the reg. fee to get those in the kits.

I wouldnt want to pay any extra money for a kit where im not going to use the extra 500 dollars in components.

Until a robot NEEDS to shift to function in a game, i see no need to include a 2 speed tranny in the KOP.

If you have extra cash go buy some AMs or some dewalts...

I can say with a lot of confidence however, that most FIRST teams can design a 2 speed transmission themselves, and save some money....you have all the time in the world in the offseason... (OHH LOOK WHAT TIME IT IS...)

[sanddrag]

I think the kit of parts should include a silver platter as well.



</sarcasm>

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by Jherbie53

Will 2 speed transmissions be used by more teams in the future? I don't know how many teams use them, but it seems like more and more are using them as time goes on.

They're becoming more common in my estimation, and I pin a lot of that on AndyMark. Just as the Kitbot has allowed for everyone to get a functioning drive system, the AM Shifter has allowed for anyone with $660 to go two-speed. Even as they get more common on the field, more teams are now able to get up-close and personal with a design known to handle almost anything FRC can throw at it and draw some ideas.

Are they easy enough that rookie teams feel super confidant in them? I know it's not easy for some rookie teams put together a dominate robot, even thought they can and do, and I don't even know if some rookie teams have used 2 speed transmissions.

AndyMarks: Absolutely. If you can assemble the Kitbot, you can get the AndyMarks going.
Custom designs: That depends. If you've got mentors that can help you with the design (or, even better, provide a baseline setup to help get moving), I'd say it's within reach. But if your team hasn't ever seen an FRC robot before, I wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole.

Can FIRST Design, or have someone design, a 2 speed transmission that is just as reliable as the KOP transmissions from 05' and 06'? And will they become affordable enough to be in the Kit Of Parts?

Someone has designed a two-speed that's just as reliable (in my experience) as the Copioli kit transmissions, and even taken it to market. Still, I see no way on earth that the price difference between a BaneBots (or even a 2005 gearbox) could be made up.

However, it would be interesting to see someone come up with a solution that uses components from the kit gearbox. (The older transmissions would work better for this than the BaneBots, obviously.) I suspect such a design, if it could be done and brought to market, could swing a more attractive price than the current magic number ($660 for an average robot). This, in turn, draws in the teams whose reservation price (marketing-speak for the most they're willing to pay) is at some lower number--a team might not be willing to pay $330 a gearbox, but they may be willing to pay $250 or $275. The difference buys a lot of pizza.

Furthermore, if these new BYOG (Bring Your Own Gears) shifters stuck, it might move the reference price (which is used to judge the acceptability of a price in the mind of a consumer) lower altogether. Suddenly, the barriers to going two-speed shift (pardon the pun) from technical and financial to the need for it in the game, weight, and personal preference.

(This, ladies and gentlemen, is what you get for having marketing courses as half of your course load in a year.)