New Robot Control System!

[Shinigami2057]

Greetings Teams:

We are pleased to announce we have begun development on a new Robot Control System for the FIRST Robotics Competition. The new system will be introduced in the 2009 season.

While specifics are not yet available, the new electronics are expected to provided additional features such as: greater processing power and memory size, adaptability to a wider variety of programming languages, and include increased support for enhanced peripherals such as new sensors, vision systems, motor controllers etc.

We will keep you updated as we move through the development process. In the meantime, have a terrific summer and please check your email or our email archive page at http://www.usfirst.org/community/frc...t.aspx?id=3520 for upcoming 2008 season information.

Go Teams!

So what do you guys think it will be? dsPIC? ARM? AVR? Blackfin? Robostix? Intel XScale? MIPS?

This could be very very awesome

[Gamer930]

OMG Speechless . . . . . .

USB????????????????
FireWire????????????
Non-Serial??????????

What other languages could it be??? Java?? actual C++?? C#??

Lets just hope it isn't another flop like the 2007 radios were and they do some actual testing

[Grant Cox]

Originally Posted by Gamer930

OMG Speechless . . . . . .

USB????????????????
FireWire????????????
Non-Serial??????????

USB is currently available

[DRH2o]

Originally Posted by GeeForce

USB is currently available

But not included

[ZZII 527]

If I may venture a wild guess based on my own speculative adventures into radio controlled robotics:

USB joysticks/controllers via a laptop included in the K.O.P. (OI+dashboard combined) and a new radio format - Zigbee? 2.4GHz, 115kbps up to 300'... http://www.maxstream.net/products/xb...ule-zigbee.php

Wireless everything, including programming and debugging.

As for..."adaptability to a wider variety of programming languages"...hrmmm, no ideas...

[seanl]

yay java programminng

[Qbranch]

mmmmm zigbee... that would be GREAT! no more drop outs, crushed flower pots, trashcans, or dented walls!

Don't think i want USB or FireWire for programming... i have this thing against networks getting in the way of me loading code... plus it would be a ton of overhead for the processor to run the USB stack. A dsPIC would be SWEEEET though... I just hope they keep C!

An updated OI with oLED matrix display (like those new osram pictiva ones, got the 3" screen demo kit, full color graphic display screen) for more readouts on the screen and the ability to make graphical outputs would be sweet...

Maybe moving all of the pwm outs up to 16 bits might be cool too... I did that on our robot this year and LOVED the results... not only do you get a ton more resolution but you also get to use all integer math for integrators n stuff since your numeric range is so huge...

I'd also like to see a higher chop rate speed controller, like 2KHz chop rate as opposed to the 120hz now so the first robots lose the angry buzzing.

I feel like i'm writing a christmas list...

-q

[EHaskins]

I want Linux!

I can't wait until 2009.

[Tom Line]

I for one hope they remember that while many newer langauges are nice, they are not taught at many high schools.

Visual Basic and C are basic languages that most schools will teach (if they teach anything). Going too far afield with the language (C# or C++ comes to mind) will force quite a few folks to have to try and learn a new langauge. I don't think that would be in the best interest of the competition.

Simple functionality improvements like wireless uploading to the Robot OI would be an incredible step forward in usability.

The option of storing several different compiled versions on board would be nice at times.

I actually appreciate the limited memory size and limited processing power. How many folks were forced to learning something new because doing floating point and trig killed the processor? It also prepares them for the state of the industry in most manufacturing environments. Finally, it forces folks towards elegant programming - clean code without a lot of garbage.

[Storcky]

Originally Posted by Tom Line

Visual Basic and C are basic languages that most schools will teach (if they teach anything). Going too far afield with the language (C# or C++ comes to mind) will force quite a few folks to have to try and learn a new langauge. I don't think that would be in the best interest of the competition.

Our school only teaches Java (for the AP test). I had to learn C on the fly with our programming mentor.

[Rohith Surampudi]

Originally Posted by EHaskins

I want Linux!

I can't wait until 2009.

i met 2 gentlemen in Atlanta, one from Google, and one from Red Hat who mentioned to me that they were hoping to have linux in our robots for the next season... maybe this is the results of their work...

[Danny Diaz]

Originally Posted by Qbranch

mmmmm zigbee... that would be GREAT! no more drop outs, crushed flower pots, trashcans, or dented walls!

Zigbee? Zigbee wasn't designed for bandwidth - The 802.15.4 bit rates are specifically limited to 250Kbps compared to 1Mbps for Bluetooth. I personally would prefer wireless 802.11[n/g] for everything, if power was not a concern.

-Danny

[Qbranch]

Originally Posted by Danny Diaz

Zigbee? Zigbee wasn't designed for bandwidth - The 802.15.4 bit rates are specifically limited to 250Kbps compared to 1Mbps for Bluetooth. I personally would prefer wireless 802.11[n/g] for everything, if power was not a concern.

uhm... right now we're at 19200baud on the first control system... thats 19.2Kbps... I'd rather take the stability of Zigbee at a speed thats already 13 times faster than what we're using now... not to mention to actually use all the bandwidth of 802.11n/g you'll be using most your processor just to do communications...

At the place where I work, we use some MaxStream ZigBee chip modems to link our plant AGVs together, and as of yet the system has proved flawless and the range excellent, in the 250' x 250' steel-constructed factory they can still communicate with eachother at extremely low (often no) packet drop rates.

Anybody have any other suggestions on radio systems that would be interesting? I know that theres more out there than just Zigbee and the 802.11x standards... any other suggestions?

-q

[Bharat Nain]

I have to agree with what Dave and Greg said. This is a huge step on the part of FIRST. I wish IFI communicated with us earlier when they had the 8.3/8.2v bug and the radio problems so teams like us were not wondering if something was wrong with our code. All this was a result of a version 1.0 as mentioned above. I hope FIRST puts in a lot of time and effort into pre-testing the new control system. There are more than enough off-season competitions through out the continent for this to be tested. The hardest part of accepting a new control system is their familiarity with FIRST. IFI has been a very long time partner and they know the way FIRST works and its requirements. I hope we know who the new vendor is and I hope they attend many competitions next year to understand what is required. Version 1.0 of the new control system should be 2007-2008 off-seasons so by the time the season rolls around, a lot of the bugs are worked out and there is considerable amount of experience among FIRST teams. Like many others, I will not be happy if we have to deal with a very buggy system in the 2009 season. I am sure FIRST realizes this but I hope they take appropriate steps to ensure this wont happen. At the championship, we were told there will be increased communication between FIRST and teams, so we should get updates as this progresses.

[Eldarion]

Actually, I kind of like the idea of having a 802.11x transceiver on each robot. It would open up some interesting possibilities as each robot could now communicate not only to the arena controller, but to the other robots on its alliance. Can you imagine the autonomous mode possibilities?