A "Big Finish" Worth Fighting Over

[Ian Curtis]

Back in my rookie year, 2004, the game's "Big Finish" was shared between the two teams. There was only so much space on that bar, typically not enough for everyone. Additionally, you didn't want the other alliance hanging. You had to fight over it. The year prior (which was the first game I ever saw), there was only so much space on that ramp, and you didn't want the other alliance on it, so you had to fight over it.

In the three years since, every game has had a "Big Finish", but they haven't been shared. In 2005, no one even really used it, in 2006, each alliance had seperate ramps, and in 2007, you weren't even allowed in your opponents endzone.

I was pretty young back when I saw these games, but I remember the endings being really exciting. I'm not saying the games since haven't been exciting, but I can't recall the same level of excitment. This may have been due to my being enamoured with what was going on around me. So to those of you can remember them, were the games with a competive "Big Finish" more exciting?

[Cory]

My guess is part of the reason we havent seen the "Big Finish" the last 3 years is because it was always a huge point of contention among teams. In 2003 2 teams on the ramp would win the match. In 2004, in quals, and even in elims depending on the quality of the event, two teams on the bar would win the match.

A lot of people didn't like that you could basically score no points at all in the first 1:45 of the match, and then win the match in the endgame 80% of the time.

Though this year the same held true for ramps, depending on how good the tube scorers were at an event.

I think it'd be more exciting to go back to the 2003/2004 format, as long as the objective wasn't a very large percentage of the average match score

[Dan Petrovic]

We need a 2003 type of finish to fight over, minus the unbelievable amount of points granted from accomplishing that objective.

That was a big problem in 2003 and 2007. The endgame was worth so many points that scoring was almost pointless. It was more worthwhile to defend and ensure you get that 25 point bonus, which many teams could do. Ramps, suction cups, etc. I even remember a team staying on the ramp the entire match. They didn't do anything else.

2007 wasn't as bad because you could outscore a double-lift with tubes with less difficulty than outscoring two 'bots on the ramp in 2003 with a big stack and lots of boxes. It was still very difficult, especially if the alliance who is relying on lifting plays defense the whole time.

2005 could have been perfect, in my eyes, if the end zone bonus was a little bit more difficult to achieve per team, and points were awarded for each robot who reached that goal. The ramps in 2006 come to mind. I think combining the game from 2005 with the ramps from 2006 (somehow avoiding the goals strewn about the field) would be perfect. Maybe lowering the 3 robot bonus to 20 instead of 25.

[Elgin Clock]

Originally Posted by iCurtis

Back in my rookie year, 2004, the game's "Big Finish" was shared between the two teams. There was only so much space on that bar, typically not enough for everyone. Additionally, you didn't want the other alliance hanging. You had to fight over it. The year prior (which was the first game I ever saw), there was only so much space on that ramp, and you didn't want the other alliance on it, so you had to fight over it.

In the three years since, every game has had a "Big Finish", but they haven't been shared. In 2005, no one even really used it, in 2006, each alliance had seperate ramps, and in 2007, you weren't even allowed in your opponents endzone.

I was pretty young back when I saw these games, but I remember the endings being really exciting. I'm not saying the games since haven't been exciting, but I can't recall the same level of excitement. This may have been due to my being enamored with what was going on around me. So to those of you can remember them, were the games with a competitive "Big Finish" more exciting?

2000: Fight to the finish by hanging on a bar/climbing an inclined plane. - It doesn't sound like much, but go watch some stock footage. It was pretty exciting.

2001: Huge finish opportunity with a time attack by balancing your robot & adding balls on top of a goal for a multiplier. (This year was also disliked by many because it was 4 against 0 and you all worked together. To most, competition is better when it's against teams of robots, and not strictly the time clock)

2002: Huge end game fight (only because) the introduction of the very controversial tether rule. (you could score at 2 ends of the field at the same time if you had a device that would allow you to do so, and that played into strategy of who got picked at multiple times over the year & at multiple events)

2003: Battle for the ramp! King of the hill style! Again, like 2000 a huge end game opportunity.

2004: Battle to hang. (Typically only 2 robots hung, this is true, but the matches where all 4 hung were spectacular to watch, and became more common as the season progressed)

2005: Light fight to the finish just by end zone races or your decision to just keep stacking those darn tetras. The biggest excitement during that year's game wasn't the end, but the (more difficult) auto modes during the beginning of the matches which when successful drew huge crowd responses the very few times it actually happened. (ie: finding, picking up, & stacking a vision tetra on a goal)

2006: Light fight to the finish, get all those
balls in the goals, and race to your own ramp and get up them! (Beginning of game once again given more emphasis as well with bonus points scored for auto mode)

2007: Light fight to the finish, and dependent on your team mates ability to be able to become a very effective ramp & give you the bonuses. (Also, just as seen in 2004 through 2006 - Bonuses given at the beginning of the match) 2007 was the 1st year (of my years included in this summary anyways) that gave you a bonus at both the beginning & the end of a match if you could accomplish the tasks at hand.

2008: Who knows what's in store?? Hopefully more ability to get bonuses at the beginning of the match with auto mode, and have some great bonus driven robot against robot endgame battles as well.

[Brandon Holley]

The big finish decline may also have something to do with the big auto incline. It is becoming clearly obvious that FIRST wants autonomous mode to be a key part of the match. By emphasizing BIG POINTS in this part of the match it may lure teams into spending a lot of time on it.

In 2002 there was no auto...

2003 autonomous began, and teams were able to get it going well, however the big points were in the ramp, not the boxes/stacking. The best autonmous?? StangPS getting up the ramp in auto, and NEVER getting down.

2004, autonomous bonus for knocking the ball off the tee....only 10 points, so not a huge deal, and it knocked the balls down "prematurely" which for some teams (ie 1403) killed them. BIG finish still very strong.

2005, autonomous was insanely difficult, VERY VERY VERY few teams were able to accomplish the task at hand, and even when they did, all it took was 1 more tetra on top of that goal, and that autonomous was void. BIG finish still there, not nearly as prominent as earlier years

2006, autonmous is HUGE, BIG finish still there as well

2007, autonmous big, maybe not as big as the year before, BIG finish still prominent


the way I see it, the big finish is still around, but autonomous is where FIRST wants to see teams succeed. solution?? autonomous = THE BIG FINISH

[EricH]

To add to Elgin's list:
1999: the battle for the "puck". The puck was an octagon on casters. In a certain area of the field, it multiplied your score significantly. Getting on it was also worth mucho points.

[Nawaid Ladak]

I would love to see a 2003/2004 finish, it would always be exciting.

To me, there are two ways to score in each Game in FIRST

2003 Stack Attack

Fixed: Ramp
Variable: oxes

2004 Raising the Bar

Fixed: Bar
Variable: Balls

2005 Triple Play

Fixed: Bonus at the end/bottom scoring
Variable: Scoring on Top w/Tetras

2006: Aim High

Fixed Ramp
Variable: Balls, wherever they went

2007: Rack N' Roll

Fixed: Ramps
Variables: Tubes

maybe first needs to figure out the perfect ratio of points to award for the fixed and variable methids of scoring: and looking at this: the more effective way to score was using the variables, BUT... when the fixed involved getting something that the other team couldn't match: the fixed was goign to be the winner.

Rack N' Roll got going in the right track for this ratio thing, but i think if you let the robots intreact, say, only one team can get the ramp bonus, then the game wold have been MUCH more exciting

assuming the other team got one robot 12 inches off the ground, you would either have to match that or beat that to get a certin amount of points... and if you didn't they would get a certin amount of points

Example Team A has 1 robot 3 inches off ground while team B has one robot 12 inches off ground, Team B gets 15 point bonus while Team A gets Nothing, etc.