How do you get your other ball

[Taylor]

Unfortunately, the wedge rule is back and very clear in <R19>: "Neither offensive nor defensive wedges are allowed"

[Blue_Mist]

Originally Posted by boiler

Unfortunately, the wedge rule is back and very clear in <R19>: "Neither offensive nor defensive wedges are allowed"

A part of the rule directly after that sentence reads: All parts of a ROBOT between 0 and 8.5 inches from the ground (the top of the BUMPER ZONE) that are used to push against or interact with an opposing ROBOT must be within 10 degrees of vertical...

So, since 2005, our robots have always had a 9 1/2 degree wedge, which is perfectly legal.

[Wvoo369]

There is another strategy a team can you to knock off the trackball on the opposing side. In the Hybrid mode you only receive a penalty of two points when going above the 6' zone. This would allow you to use that trackball in the telioperated period rather then having to knock it down in the telioperated period and potentially losing 10 points or more.

If I have misread the rules please clarify for me. Thank you.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Wvoo369

There is another strategy a team can you to knock off the trackball on the opposing side. In the Hybrid mode you only receive a penalty of two points when going above the 6' zone. This would allow you to use that trackball in the telioperated period rather then having to knock it down in the telioperated period and potentially losing 10 points or more.

If I have misread the rules please clarify for me. Thank you.

I see only one point value for penalties (unless you count disable and DQ as point values.) It isn't 2 points. There is no distinction made between Hybrid and Teleoperated.

[ALIBI]

The arena is divided into four distinct areas, movement between areas is counterclockwise (G42). Once you are in an area, you should be able to move in any direction you want, just leave a passing lane. You could go back and knock the trackball down from the other side since you can not be over six feet tall while in opposing alliances home stretch (G36).

Boiler nailed it, if the trackball stays up for the entire match, it becomes 12 points.

I would like to see a definition of "in" regarding rule G36. Do the boundaries of the home stretch extend to the ceiling? Meaning that if any part of your robot passes over the home stretch without touching the floor, would it be considered a violation? G22 talks about breaking the plane being a violation, rule G36 does not.

[Tottanka]

you could get the ball while not beeing in the opposing side's home strech zone.
You cross their finish line, go back dropping the ball/grabbing it and there you have it.
This might be intentional by the GDC, not a mistake like many of us hurried to asume.
The mistake though, is in the Game Animation, which means that Lavery is still messing with our heads!

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Tottanka

you could get the ball while not beeing in the opposing side's home strech zone.
You cross their finish line, go back dropping the ball/grabbing it and there you have it.

Chuck proposed that. You can't recross any lines or even break the planes unless you have gone a full lap. So, you cross the finish line and then hit the ball. You now run the risk of getting a 10-pointer for breaking the plane.

[Tottanka]

Originally Posted by EricH

Chuck proposed that. You can't recross any lines or even break the planes unless you have gone a full lap. So, you cross the finish line and then hit the ball. You now run the risk of getting a 10-pointer for breaking the plane.

But it might jube be woeth it in order to get the ball dropped and usable for Hurdling.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by EricH

Chuck proposed that. You can't recross any lines or even break the planes unless you have gone a full lap. So, you cross the finish line and then hit the ball. You now run the risk of getting a 10-pointer for breaking the plane.

Why do you risk getting the penalty?

The finish line is directly under the 2nd bar. As long as whatever you hit the trackball with is vertical and is outside the bar, then you have not broken the plane. The ball will overhang the bar and thus can be hit and knocked off the rails without penalty.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

Why do you risk getting the penalty?

The finish line is directly under the 2nd bar. As long as whatever you hit the trackball with is vertical and is outside the bar, then you have not broken the plane. The ball will overhang the bar and thus can be hit and knocked off the rails without penalty.

If you are slightly off/your vertical member bends over the line, you broke the plane. If a ref sees you, they can give a penalty. I'm also not sure it's physically possible to do this. (ball and rail dynamics)

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by EricH

If you are slightly off/your vertical member bends over the line, you broke the plane. If a ref sees you, they can give a penalty. I'm also not sure it's physically possible to do this. (ball and rail dynamics)

I'm not too concerned about the vertical member being off (this is what spirit levels are for ) ... I'd be more concerned with a portion of the robot hanging over the finish line while we extend above the 6' high restriction.

[GBIT]

given a trackball center at (0,0)
given a trackball contact point with a rail at (16,y) (the rails are 32" apart)
given the trackball is 20" and assuming it remains approximately spherical, then...

x^2 + y^2 = r^2
16^2 + y^2 = 400
y^2 = 400 - 256
y = 12

So the contact point for the rails will be 12" below the center of the ball. This means that between the rails, the bottom of the ball should be 8" below them, and thus 2" below the maximum allowed height of a robot in the opponent zone. However, this is in an ideal world where the rails are infinitely thin and the ball is perfectly sperical. Since the rails are 1.5" wide and the ball will deform some, the ball may be slightly higher than where I computed it to be, and the contact space for a robot will be very, very small.

I know this math has been posted in a few other threads but the math is faulty so ill post my teams

We noticed the the equation above used numbers assuming the ball was on center with the pipes. this is not true seeing that the ball rests on the top of the pipes. We found the hang to be (assuming the the 6.5' overpass is on center with the pipes) it would hang only 1.5 inches below the 6' legal limit. If the 6.5' is at the bottom of the pipes it would hang only .67 inches from the 6' limit. this is assuming the the ball in of 40" diameter.


here is the diagram:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/at...6&d=1199655203

[David Brinza]

Suppose you clear the finish line then raise something to contact the part of the ball that overhangs the overpass. If this appendage of the robot contacts the pipe supporting the ball, have you broken the plane? Would this be a violation of <G22> even if the robot base is not moving in a clockwise direction? Lot's of stuff for FIRST Q&A to address on this topic...

[GBIT]

Originally Posted by David Brinza

Suppose you clear the finish line then raise something to contact the part of the ball that overhangs the overpass. If this appendage of the robot contacts the pipe supporting the ball, have you broken the plane? Would this be a violation of <G22> even if the robot base is not moving in a clockwise direction? Lot's of stuff for FIRST Q&A to address on this topic...

no the Home stretch is ,from what my team told me, the wall to the preceding edge of the black and white checker.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by GBIT

no the Home stretch is ,from what my team told me, the wall to the preceding edge of the black and white checker.

It doesn't matter what anyone tells you if the Game Design Committee says differently. The GDC hasn't declared which edge is the right one, or if it's the middle, or anything. Unless they can show you in the manual which edge is right, it's a question for Q&A.

NOTE: On the same topic, CD answers are NOT official rulings. We can offer our interpretations of the rules, we can point you to the appropriate rule, and we can send you to the Q&A for the answer. More than that we cannot do.