End Game Confusion

[SU 39]

I'm kind of confused about the scoring regarding the end game.
If you've placed a trackball on the overpass and it stays there when the buzzer sounds, that's 12 points.
But what about when the opponent knocks it over?
Would you get the points for hurdling still? So instead of getting 12 for having it on the overpass would you get the 8 for the hurdle?
Definition of a hurdle: When a TRACKBALL CROSSES a FINISH LINE while passing above the OVERPASS and then contacts either the floor or another ROBOT before re-contacting the originating ROBOT.
Rule <G08> says that the scoring robot's color doesn't matter, just the color of the ball. So would that mean you can get the hurdle points if you touched it after it was knocked down?

On an entirely different side note, Dean Kamen "lied" to us during the kickoff. He said he would be the last one we would hear before we heard the game. Instead we heard from the two IR people, Woodie, and maybe one more(forgot who though)

[hipsterjr]

well, I think it would be just 6 points ( hurdling consist of 6 points for the hurdle and 2 points for the bot crossing the line = 8 points).

[SU 39]

Originally Posted by hipsterjr

well, I think it would be just 6 points ( hurdling consist of 6 points for the hurdle and 2 points for the bot crossing the line = 8 points).

No in rule <G11> it says you get 8 points, 2 for the BALL crossing the finish line, and 6 for the act of going over the top. So a hurdle with a robot would get you 10, 6 for the ball going over the overpass, 2 for going over the line, and 2 for the robot. The hurdle is just referred to as 8 points because it is impossible to go over the overpass without crossing over the line on the ground.

[1086VEX]

i dont think it counts as a hurdle because here
When a TRACKBALL CROSSES a FINISH LINE while passing above the OVERPASS and then contacts either the floor or another ROBOT before re-contacting the originating ROBOT.
and then contacts the floor or robot...if it sits in the over pass first it wouldnt ba a hurdle...it must pass all the way over at one time

[burkey_turkey]

Originally Posted by 1086VEX

if it sits in the over pass first it wouldnt ba a hurdle...it must pass all the way over at one time

Do we have confirmation of this, because our team has been acting under the assumption that it can touch the top of the overpass on its way over. this could really affect our plans if thats not true. I would love some clarification on this, but it seems to me that even if you touch the overpass, it is still going over, and is thus a hurdle.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by burkey_turkey

Do we have confirmation of this, because our team has been acting under the assumption that it can touch the top of the overpass on its way over. this could really affect our plans if thats not true. I would love some clarification on this, but it seems to me that even if you touch the overpass, it is still going over, and is thus a hurdle.

I think your assumption is correct, but Q&A should be asked.

[1086VEX]

i think it can touch but cant sit there as if you has recaped it...and thats just how my team interpreted it...

[kirtar]

Originally Posted by 1086VEX

i dont think it counts as a hurdle because here
When a TRACKBALL CROSSES a FINISH LINE while passing above the OVERPASS and then contacts either the floor or another ROBOT before re-contacting the originating ROBOT.
and then contacts the floor or robot...if it sits in the over pass first it wouldnt ba a hurdle...it must pass all the way over at one time

That rule doesn't seem to fit. The ball still passes over (although at some point it is standing still relative to the Earth), and will not touch the originating robot before touching the ground (assuming that the "originating robot" is the one that put it up there in the first place).

I would agree with the above posters saying that while it seems reasonable that it would count for a hurdle, it's probably best to wait for a ruling on it.

[Chrisms]

Originally Posted by SU 39

No in rule <G11> it says you get 8 points, 2 for the BALL crossing the finish line, and 6 for the act of going over the top. So a hurdle with a robot would get you 10, 6 for the ball going over the overpass, 2 for going over the line, and 2 for the robot. The hurdle is just referred to as 8 points because it is impossible to go over the overpass without crossing over the line on the ground.

err.... I agree with your 10 points, but it's 8 for the overpass none for crossing the line, and 2 possible for the robot. The 2 for the robot isn't a sure thing though, you could stop on the line.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Chrisms

err.... I agree with your 10 points, but it's 8 for the overpass none for crossing the line, and 2 possible for the robot. The 2 for the robot isn't a sure thing though, you could stop on the line.

It's 2 for the robot, 2 for the ball, and 6 (lumped together with the 2 for the ball) for going over the overpass. See <G11>.

[TomZ]

I have another questabout the end game. If you only knock down one ball in the beginning and at the end the other is still on the overpass do you still get the points, even though you didn't place it there?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by TomZ

I have another questabout the end game. If you only knock down one ball in the beginning and at the end the other is still on the overpass do you still get the points, even though you didn't place it there?

No difference is made in the rules.

[MGoelz]

Originally Posted by EricH

No difference is made in the rules.

Exactly. Here is the rule. It doesn't mention how it got there, simply that it is there.

<G14> When the MATCH ends, each TRACKBALL is at least partially supported by the OVERPASS and not in contact with any ROBOT of the same ALLIANCE will earn a 12 point bonus.

[Ian Curtis]

While the title to this thread isn't overtly descriptive, I think the information contained within it is. The situation as I understand it is as follows:

BLUEABOT proceeds around the BLUE FINISH LINE with a BLUE TRACKBALL as the clock counts down. As the end game approaches, he places it on the OVERPASS (above the BLUE FINISH LINE). Then, he continues around the track, desperately trying for another lap, thinking the RED alliance will not have time to descore. Well, REDABOT has other plans, and displaces the BLUE TRACKBALL in such a way that it CROSSES the BLUE FINISH LINE, and proceeds counterclockwise around the track.

As I understand it, while the BLUE ALLIANCE no longer recieves a 12 point bonus, they will recieve an 8 point score for the HURDLE. So the RED ALLIANCE has achieved only a 4 point swing.

If REDABOT was to displace the BLUE TRACKBALL in such a fashion that it bounced off, backwards (aka in a clockwise direction), then there would be no hurdle per the definition of CROSSING, correct?

This could make the end game very pins and needles if robots are not good at knocking balls out in one direction.

[Ragnarokae]

Originally Posted by iCurtis

BLUEABOT proceeds around the BLUE FINISH LINE with a BLUE TRACKBALL as the clock counts down. As the end game approaches, he places it on the OVERPASS (above the BLUE FINISH LINE). Then, he continues around the track, desperately trying for another lap, thinking the RED alliance will not have time to descore. Well, REDABOT has other plans, and displaces the BLUE TRACKBALL in such a way that it CROSSES the BLUE FINISH LINE, and proceeds counterclockwise around the track.

As I understand it, while the BLUE ALLIANCE no longer recieves a 12 point bonus, they will recieve an 8 point score for the HURDLE. So the RED ALLIANCE has achieved only a 4 point swing.

If REDABOT was to displace the BLUE TRACKBALL in such a fashion that it bounced off, backwards (aka in a clockwise direction), then there would be no hurdle per the definition of CROSSING, correct?

This could make the end game very pins and needles if robots are not good at knocking balls out in one direction.

You can go clockwise within the current quadrant that you are in, so the REDABOT could be past the BLUE finish line, yet still turn around and knock it back CLOCKWISE.

But I do agree that it could get very tight at the end.