Defensive Strategy - cornering opponents ball

[SL8]

And as you said, the annoying effect, would affect them even more by impairing the drivers flow of adrenaline with thyroid hormones.

[Beldo]

Interesting.

[SL8]

Congrats for picking your first post to consist of " interesting" .
But seriously, actively participate more often, mkay? We don't bite.
On the driving not, I had utter confidence in our driver and believe that games can be won or lost based on the defense of each alliance as well as the offense.

[The Lucas]

Originally Posted by petek

I believe that if the GDC had wanted this to be an offensive-only game, they would have put six trackballs on the overpass.

I also think that the GDC wouldn't have written a definition of Hurdle that required the original robot to lose possession of the ball if they intended this game to be offense only. This Pinning a trackball is completely legal, as long as the trackball is on the floor (not supported) and not moving with the robot (not captured). It is a challenge to the driver and designers of the offensive robot to get the ball out of the pin quickly. This thread/strategy has been around since 1/6/08, so it was something to consider during build.

I have always thought the third robot is usually best served as a defense bot, since they can likely prevent more points in (high scoring) opponents hurdles then they can score (without one of their own trackballs) by simply doing laps (prevent 3 hurdles > 11 laps). Pretty much every alliance at I saw Philly tried trackball defense including pinning trackballs at some point with various degrees of success. Alliance 7 even tried using 2 robots to pin 2 trackballs. They succeeded in pinning one for the majority of the match. I was totally surprised how little defense there was in the qualification matches, considering Philly's rep in previous years.

At both regionals my team competed in, FLR and Philly, the alliance with the best trackball defender IMHO won. At FLR it was 2053 (with 20 & 191 & later 174) and at Philly it was 84. They can't win it without the offensive robots but they certainly play a key role in the "alliance" winning.

[Shadow503]

While pinning is definitely against the intent of the game, I do have to say it will make the championship interesting. I think we'll find more lower seeding box bots making it in to the finals and beyond because of defensive abilities.

I do have to warn any team that sees fit to pin our ball that I have no qualms against high speed "bumping" of the trackball to recover it . . .

[XaulZan11]

Originally Posted by Shadow503

I do have to warn any team that sees fit to pin our ball that I have no qualms against high speed "bumping" of the trackball to recover it . . .

Just make sure you don't accidently hit the robot instead and recieve a high speed ramming penality.

[thefro526]

I will say this, pinning the trackball is one hell of a defensive strategy, it cost us the semi's in philly. If you need a defensive strategy, use this one and you effectively make any match with 2 hurdlers into a match with one hurdler and a hurdler that now has to run laps.

[Shadow503]

Yup, "accidently". . .

If you can't tell, pinning is really starting to tick me off because it's such a good defensive strategy XD (we have a highly offensive bot)! I'd recommend any team looking for defensive strategies try to pin the balls.

[JB987]

Originally Posted by thefro526

I will say this, pinning the trackball is one hell of a defensive strategy, it cost us the semi's in philly. If you need a defensive strategy, use this one and you effectively make any match with 2 hurdlers into a match with one hurdler and a hurdler that now has to run laps.

Gee, maybe if we are lucky both teams will pin both opponents trackballs so the spectators can take a well needed nap!

What we will probably begin to see is many versatile offensive teams using the low end of their shifters to separate the pinning bot from the trackball? The game will slow some and the scores will reduce in these instances, but I still see the game going in favor of the team actually scoring hurdles...

[FoleyEngineer]

As someone who's been on both sides of the pinning - having partners who pinned to help us and having to fight through pins, I wouldn't mind a modification to the rules - allow pinning for 10 seconds, and then force the bot to back off for say 3 feet and 3 seconds - just like last year. That way, they can't hold it forever but can slow things down.

My only other rule suggestion is to change the lane violation rule on the "end lanes" (not the overpass lanes) to NOT be a violation if you break the plane but only if your entire robot crosses back into the previous quadrant. That way, you could turn or move out of the way of another bot and as long as your entire robot didn't come back into the previous quadrant, you'd be fine. I think this would reduce those darned violations by a good 80% and everyone would be happy. The whole purpose was to keep people going clockwise and not be able to do tricky plane maneuvers around the finish line - both of which this would keep in effect.

[Bill Moore]

Originally Posted by FoleyEngineer

My only other rule suggestion is to change the lane violation rule on the "end lanes" (not the overpass lanes) to NOT be a violation if you break the plane but only if your entire robot crosses back into the previous quadrant. That way, you could turn or move out of the way of another bot and as long as your entire robot didn't come back into the previous quadrant, you'd be fine. I think this would reduce those darned violations by a good 80% and everyone would be happy. The whole purpose was to keep people going clockwise and not be able to do tricky plane maneuvers around the finish line - both of which this would keep in effect.

I am told that it is quite difficult to see the robot through the reflection and glare off the center divider at the opposite end of the field. This tweak would help alleviate that problem.

[Shadow503]

Originally Posted by Bill Moore

I am told that it is quite difficult to see the robot through the reflection and glare off the center divider at the opposite end of the field. This tweak would help alleviate that problem.

QFT. We need an amendment like this. What is the chance of FIRST releasing another update before championships?

[FoleyEngineer]

Originally Posted by FoleyEngineer

My only other rule suggestion is to change the lane violation rule on the "end lane dividers" (not the overpass lanes) to NOT be a violation if you break the plane but only if your entire robot crosses back into the previous quadrant. That way, you could turn or move out of the way of another bot and as long as your entire robot didn't come back into the previous quadrant, you'd be fine. I think this would reduce those darned violations by a good 80% and everyone would be happy. The whole purpose was to keep people going clockwise and not be able to do tricky plane maneuvers around the finish line - both of which this would keep in effect.

Who would complain? The offensive or defense bots? Not likely, as it seems everyone falls victim to this occasionally and it actually slows the game down. Not the refs as it would make their job a ton easier and reduce complaints. Not the fans, so I say let's ask them to do it!

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by FoleyEngineer

Not the refs as it would make their job a ton easier and reduce complaints.

Actually it would make it harder for the refs to see. Call the home stretch Quadrant 1, followed by Quadrant 2, Q3 (the other home stretch) and Q4. The ref who calls the lane marker crossing penalties is the one in Q2. She can clearly see that the robot has completely exited Q2 and entered Q3, and then breaks the plane back into Q2. If the requirement were that the robot had to completely cross back into Q2 before the penalty would be called, she wouldn't be able to tell if it was completely over the line because the robot itself would be obscuring her vision of the line.

[FoleyEngineer]

Well, I think you'd have so few violations of it this way, that it wouldn't really matter. Bots very seldom enter the entire way back into "Q2", it's usually just an arm or corner as they make the turn in traffic. I bet you'd see one every 4 or 5 matches... at best... which would be a tiny fraction of what they are now. Nobody likes the way it is now.