rule question on scoring above overpass

[Robo_Coyote]

my idea is that it would be fast when trying to score, to place the ball on the overpass, then drive under and retrieve it from the top of the overpass. I think this will be easier than trying to track the bouncing ball back down. Does anyone see anything questionable about this rule wise?

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by Robo_Coyote

my idea is that it would be fast when trying to score, to place the ball on the overpass, then drive under and retrieve it from the top of the overpass. I think this will be easier than trying to track the bouncing ball back down. Does anyone see anything questionable about this rule wise?

From the manual (which is quality reading, lemme tell you), emphasis mine:

HURDLE: When a TRACKBALL CROSSES a FINISH LINE while passing above the OVERPASS
and then contacts either the floor or another ROBOT before re-contacting the originating ROBOT.

[Elgin Clock]

Originally Posted by Billfred

I suppose it would help you a bit if the action you described was an allowable form of hurdling. From the manual (which is quality reading, lemme tell you), emphasis mine:

Thanks Billfred. I had heard a rule about touching the Trackball existed, and was reading up on it, but couldn't find it.

Thanks for that manual quote.

[GaryVoshol]

But, while the trackball is sitting on the overpass it hasn't yet CROSSED. So is the second-touch rule in effect yet?

[Jeff Rodriguez]

Originally Posted by <G22>

Direction Of Traffic – ROBOTS must proceed around the TRACK in a counter-clockwise direction. Once a ROBOT has CROSSED a LANE MARKER or FINISH LINE, it shall not break the plane of the line by moving in the clockwise direction. A PENALTY will be assigned for each infraction.

You also run into rule G22. If you reach back to grab the ball, you'll be crossing the line in the clockwise direction.

[Dominicano0519]

Originally Posted by Ogre

You also run into rule G22. If you reach back to grab the ball, you'll be crossing the line in the clockwise direction.

um you can definitely work around that just make you manipulator work above your robot

i.e. put the ball on the over pass

and move foward ( cross the line for two points yessssss!!!!!!!! more points) and reach back w/o moving your entire robot back

[Andrew Bates]

So at what point do you actually have to release the ball?

[Tom Line]

I suspect you are doing gyrations that are not necessary. As someone else said, we need clarification from First.

1. Can you touch the ball while hurdling it through the start/finish plane
2. Can you break the plane from the non-home stretch side of the field with your gripper to knock the ball off in hybrid

[tbd]

We have a simmilar dilemma:
What actually is considered a hurdle?

Originally Posted by Dominicano0519

i.e. put the ball on the over pass

and move foward ( cross the line for two points yessssss!!!!!!!! more points) and reach back w/o moving your entire robot back

^ is that really a possibility? Is putting the trackball on the overpass and just pushing it off again considered a hurdle? Can the ball even touch the overpass when its hurdled?
And then ofcourse can you touch the ball during the hurdling?

[redbarron]

I think the robot cannot be touching the trackball at any point while the trackball breaks the plane of the line. Therefore when the ball is on top it has been touched while entering and leaving the plane if it is sat up there then grabbed off.

[JesseK]

bah, nvm, I see the big conflict.

Keep in mind they mean for a CROSS to have a vertical projection, e.g. from a bounce or from launching it. No matter how I twist this in my head it seems the grey area is whether or not the "vertical projection" must happen before the trackball breaks the plane of the finish line or if it is still scorable to give the ball a vertical projection after it breaks the plane but before it has fulled CROSSED.

[ALIBI]

The rules seem to indicate that you must let go (not be in contact with) the trackball sometime before, during or after it completely crosses the finish line once you do whatever it is you do to get it over and to count it must touch either the floor or another robot before you touch it again.

When the trackball is completely past the finish line, if you have not all ready let go of it, you must do so now. Then, before you touch it again, it must touch either the floor or another robot.

[jediptm]

Originally Posted by tbd

We have a simmilar dilemma:
What actually is considered a hurdle?



^ is that really a possibility? Is putting the trackball on the overpass and just pushing it off again considered a hurdle? Can the ball even touch the overpass when its hurdled?
And then ofcourse can you touch the ball during the hurdling?

Based on the definition from the rules:
HURDLE: When a TRACKBALL CROSSES a FINISH LINE while passing above the OVERPASS and then contacts either the floor or another ROBOT before re-contacting the originating ROBOT.

Above would seem to me to mean you can't set the ball on the overpass, then knock it off. When you add this to the scoring chart that says you get 0 points for knocking a ball off the overpass during the teleoperated period, I am pretty confident this would not count as a hurdle.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Dominicano0519

um you can definitely work around that just make you manipulator work above your robot

i.e. put the ball on the over pass

and move foward ( cross the line for two points yessssss!!!!!!!! more points) and reach back w/o moving your entire robot back

...And have a 10-point penalty for re-crossing the line (breaking the plane is counted as re-crossing), giving you a score of zero for the maneuver and a loss of time as you must go around again.

[jerry w]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

But, while the trackball is sitting on the overpass it hasn't yet CROSSED. So is the second-touch rule in effect yet?

this is very tricky.
because your trackball is now resting on the overpass, part of the ball extends past the finish line. if you now dislodge the ball, using your robot then you get no points, since you are touching the ball while it is crossing the line.
you get no 2-point score nor the 6-point bonus. however, if you pull the ball back from the overpass, and then hurdle the ball correctly, the score should be given.

jerry w