How to get the ball over the overpass!?

[ar2]

Any ideas guys???

-Pneumatics
-some sort of piston
-springs
-forklift


we were considering the springs but will FIRST allow?
is it safe? Cocking 3 springs before the match??

Pneumatics; how much force required??

Actuators; what kinds are allowed??
http://www.firgelliauto.com/default.php?cPath=94

what are your inputs??

[EricH]

Originally Posted by ar2

Any ideas guys???

-Pneumatics
-some sort of piston
-springs
-forklift


we were considering the springs but will FIRST allow?
is it safe? Cocking 3 springs before the match??

Pneumatics; how much force required??

Actuators; what kinds are allowed??
http://www.firgelliauto.com/default.php?cPath=94

what are your inputs??

First, those linked actuators are definitely NOT allowed. The only legal types are described in Section 8.

Springs--definitely watch the safety. If those things are deemed unsafe, you won't be able to do anything with them.

Pneumatics--I'm not sure about the force you'd need.

As for your ideas, how about having your team discuss those? One of them might stand out to your teammates.

[fredliu168]

Here's how I would do it. I would build an arm to grab the ball, and instead of throwing the ball, I would get the robot to extend the arm over the overpass to the other side. Then "drop" the the ball onto the other side.

[Lord Byron]

Originally Posted by fredliu168

Here's how I would do it. I would build an arm to grab the ball, and instead of throwing the ball, I would get the robot to extend the arm over the overpass to the other side. Then "drop" the the ball onto the other side.

rather than extending over it, just punch it with a piston once its high enough. Or build a catapult (some team will try it I promise you).

[flamefixed]

springs or momentum type *throwers* probably will have trouble getting past inspection because so much energy will be required, and it becomes very unsafe. Last year springs were used on our robot as a buoyant force so we could easily raise and lower our ramps, not in a way to rapidly release all that potential energy.

also is...

<R60> Items specifically PROHIBITED from use on the ROBOT include:
 Electric motors and/or servos different from, or in addition to, those in the Kit Of Parts, with
the exception of those specifically permitted by Rule <R59>.
 Electric solenoid actuators (note: electric solenoid actuators are NOT the same as pneumatic
solenoid valves – the latter are permitted, the former are not).

...why those firgelliautos actuators are definitely NOT allowed?

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by flamefixed

...why those firgelliautos actuators are definitely NOT allowed?

<R60> (which you quoted) prohibits motors that aren't in the Kit of Parts.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

<R60> (which you quoted) prohibits motors that aren't in the Kit of Parts.

They looked like pneumatics to me. Even then, there is a rule...

<R89> In addition to the pneumatic cylinders provided in the Kit Of Parts and the “free” pneumatic cylinders available for order through the Free Pneumatic Components Order Form, additional air cylinders or rotary actuators may be used. All cylinders, regardless of source, must be identical to those listed on the Free Pneumatic Components Order Form (e.g. same part numbers). Any additional air cylinders must source from Bimba or Parker Hannifin, or be recovered from prior year FIRST Kit Of Parts.
<R90> Items specifically PROHIBITED from use on the ROBOT include:
• Any air compressor other than, or in addition to, the one provided in the Kit Of Parts.
• Pneumatic cylinders and actuators different from those in the Kit or found on the Free Pneumatic Components Order form, with the exception of those specifically permitted by Rule <R89>.

[Travis Hoffman]

How about motorized conveyor belting arms (green polycord makes a return) that hug the ball and can either suck it in or spit it out?

Or the Technokat's Klaw from 2004? That thing was big enough grabbing a 30" ball. Imagine one that could encompass a trackball. Oy.

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by fredliu168

Here's how I would do it. I would build an arm to grab the ball, and instead of throwing the ball, I would get the robot to extend the arm over the overpass to the other side. Then "drop" the the ball onto the other side.

i think lots of teams are going to try this.

[jimsmith2354]

We are trying to find out if we can forklift it onto the overpass then push it off and over.

[llama]

our team is having issues with this decision as well... we have a general consensus though that we do not want to use an arm but rather a claw/fork lift hybrid because of the balls immense weight and size

the problem with using an arm also is the cantilever effect that is generated by extending the arm so far away from the bot (at best you'd have the arm one foot horizontally and 6ft vertically from the base of your bot and that adds up to be some intense weight pulling you into the bars)

[RyanCesiel]

The animation gave has a lot of ideas (many can be a joke), including things like a forklift and an arm - check that out if you haven't already.

[Travis Hoffman]

Originally Posted by llama

the problem with using an arm also is the cantilever effect that is generated by extending the arm so far away from the bot (at best you'd have the arm one foot horizontally and 6ft vertically from the base of your bot and that adds up to be some intense weight pulling you into the bars)

This was marginally successful during testing...

http://www.delphielite.com/~team48/Media/IMG_2067_2.jpg

The base of the ball is about 5.5' off the ground in this photo. We ran several full speed trial runs at this height - the robot was stable upon sudden stopping about half the time. Under more manageable forward speeds - those at which you'd be moving to position your arm to cap/hurdle the trackball - it behaved well.

This arm's tilt feature lets you reposition the ball over the bot's pivot point quite nicely for transport. The extension stage was designed to lift the entire weight of the robot off the ground, and therefore, it easily and quickly handled the lifting of the ball. Even the lil' ol Globe motor-driven hook stage had enough oomph to elevate the ball further....at a snail's pace.

This little test gave us a decent idea of what will be needed to manipulate this 40" beast.

[robogeek753]

I don't know how a previous poster got a pneumatic to launch a ball, but generally speaking any kind of projectile with a huge ball like that is going to be hard to do. I can almost gurantee that a pneumatic in any configuration won't work (to make the ball act like a projectile). Gas shocks may well be too slow. The only options I see are inertia (as mentioned) or a really big Aim High style cannon (good luck with that though )

[=Martin=Taylor=]

Originally Posted by robogeek753

I don't know how a previous poster got a pneumatic to launch a ball, but generally speaking any kind of projectile with a huge ball like that is going to be hard to do. I can almost gurantee that a pneumatic in any configuration won't work (to make the ball act like a projectile). Gas shocks may well be too slow. The only options I see are inertia (as mentioned) or a really big Aim High style cannon (good luck with that though )

Perhaps I should qualify my previous statement by saying that the ball was launched off of our ramp and landed 4' away. Such a design could be used to hoist the ball up the desired height and then shoot it over the overpass. But shooting from the ground... Well... With pneumatics I'm gonna say thats imposible