Flag height questionable

[BeyondRamo]

In the manual it states in rule <R17>
"The flag holder must be permanently mounted to the ROBOT such that when the ROBOT is in any PLAYING CONFIGURATION and the FLAG is in the flag holder, the FLAG is approximately vertical and the top of the FLAG is 75 inches above the floor." Yet at the same time the ball when it is resting in the OVERPASS is approximately 6 feet or 72 inches above the floor. Hmm.... does anyone happen to see a problem there. Not only that but also the OVERPASS itself is only 6.5 feet or 78 inches above the floor, leaving very little leeway for the flag in order for it to successfully pass underneath without becoming damaged. Perhaps someone could inquire about this whole situation and see if there need to be any changes made in the manual regarding the flag and its holder.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by BeyondRamo

[...] Not only that but also the OVERPASS itself is only 6.5 feet or 78 inches above the floor, leaving very little leeway for the flag in order for it to successfully pass underneath without becoming damaged. Perhaps someone could inquire about this whole situation and see if there need to be any changes made in the manual regarding the flag and its holder.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that there won't be any changes. Remember, the lap counter goes on the flag at the base of the holder, and I'm willing to bet that the range of the IR is limited. While there may be interference, I would say it's part of the game challenge. Also, the flag is on a flexible rod, allowing it to bend out of the way.

[lukevanoort]

I don't see why they don't just make the flag's pole shorter. The lap counter is on the stopper, if I remember correctly, so it would be unaffected, and the modification would keep flags from impacting the bottoms of balls they pass under.

[jgannon]

Originally Posted by lukevanoort

I don't see why they don't just make the flag's pole shorter.

Somebody at FIRST needs several hundred broken sticks, and they figured it would be a lot easier to outsource the labor.

[Ziaholic]

What I don't like about <R17> is mostly semantic ...

"The flag holder must be permanently mounted to the ROBOT such that when the ROBOT is in any PLAYING CONFIGURATION and the FLAG is in the flag holder, the FLAG is approximately vertical and the top of the FLAG is 75 inches above the floor."

Approximately Vertical is an arbitrary measurement. And the 75" has no tolerance specified.

In our case, we were planning on mounting our flag to our Mast ... the 60" vertical struts coming up from our drive chassis. Problem is, our Mast can tilt from vertical to 20-degree's or so ... changing the orientation of our flag.

Some judges might call that "approximately vertical" while others might not.

... and if we're 75" tall in one configuration, we won't be in the other.

... and I'd wager a paycheck that nobody can comply with 75.000000000000" tall

We may have to reconsider our flag placement, unless we can get this one reworded.

[MrForbes]

75" has an implied tolerance of +/- 1/2", as I understand how numbers work....

It should be fun to see how this all works out, but my guess is that the flagpole is strong and flexible enough to not have any problems even if it does hit the trackball. As long as it has the required 0.25" radius on the end, that is...and your flagholder is mounted quite securely.

[Jimmy Nichols]

THe lap counter has to be at 52",51" holder plus 1" stopper, minimum in order to read correctly. We have a mentor who is an FTA for FIRST and he was at NH for the kickoff.

[ALIBI]

The most recent update to the Inspection Checklist:

"Bicycle Flag: Must have an appropriate holder with correct installed height - 75” +/- 1”. The flag needs to remain approximately vertical."

This must be held when in your playing configuration. Not necessarily your starting configuration.

Ziaholic, I have not done the math, however, depending on where your Mast rotates, the top of flag will probably not be within 74"-76", let alone approximately vertical, when you tilt to 20 degreees. I would suggest finding an alternate location for your flag holder. There are several other posts/threads that talk about teams having difficulties placing their flag holder on the robot. You are not alone. We had to build a stand off in order to keep the flag from getting in the way of the trackball.

[Jeff Waegelin]

An interesting issue with this: what about the balls that will be sitting on the overpass? We mounted our flagholder the other day, and at the appropriate height, the top 4" or so of the flag will hit a trackball that is sitting on the overpass. I would not be surprised to see quite a few flags broken or launched out because of this interference.

[Hastypickle]

We mounted our flag holder the other day and the highest point on our robot when folded is about 3.5', so the flag holder looks out of place. I wonder if they will allow us to lower the flag holder to prevent it from hitting any balls still up.

[strawberymochi]

quick question

we have a pneumatic actuator that's mounted to hit the ball off the overpass. Could we attach the flag mount to that mount? or is that not allowed

[EricH]

Originally Posted by strawberymochi

quick question

we have a pneumatic actuator that's mounted to hit the ball off the overpass. Could we attach the flag mount to that mount? or is that not allowed

Is the mount at the right height? Is it fixed (reasonably) in position? If the answer to both is "yes", you should be able to.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by strawberymochi

quick question

we have a pneumatic actuator that's mounted to hit the ball off the overpass. Could we attach the flag mount to that mount? or is that not allowed

Originally Posted by EricH

Is the mount at the right height? Is it fixed (reasonably) in position? If the answer to both is "yes", you should be able to.

One other consideration - is the half-circle clear zone available there?

[Clourchn07]

the inspection sheet at the back of your manual states that the flag height is 75" with +/- 5".

We were wondering until we saw that ,too.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Clourchn07

the inspection sheet at the back of your manual states that the flag height is 75" with +/- 5".

We were wondering until we saw that ,too.

Check the revision on that. Rev E says that it is +/- 1".