what type of robot will win the most?

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by ALIBI

Hybrid, Hybrid, Hybrid. That term has certainly changed from last year. Bots that can consistantly score well in hybrid will go a long way. A prior post talked about removing a trackball during hybrid, what about a robot that can remove two trackballs in hybrid? You know you will see it happen. It is like any other year, certain bots will do well depending on the alliances they are with or against. The key to this year is controlled speed. I do not care if you are a lifter bot or some type of shooter for hurdling. You have to be stable and reasonably fast. Defense, well, chasing down trackballs that are being defensively pushed around will be difficult. A fast lifter/shooter bot that can possess the trackball quickly will do well. No matter how well you lift/shoot the trackball, you still have to get it off the floor. Placing is overated, unless you plan on staying put to guard your placed trackball, someone will come around and knock it down, remember, there is no protection while placing the trackball on the overpass. The benefit to placing is that you can do it on either overpass so that if you are stuck by the other teams overpass, you could place there. Otherwise, why not hurdle (protected) and zip over the finish line for almost the same points?

The best bot this year: Better than average hybrid, must be able to remove the trackball, must be able to hurdle quickly, must be able to retrieve the trackball off the floor quickly.

Placing really should only be done in the last few minutes, or someone might knock the ball down. it's protected the same as hurdling, i believe - after all, who is going to say we're trying to place or hurdle until we actually finish the maneuver? for us, the two look exactly the same. Placing will come into play in two ways - first, it'll be a great way to score an extra 4 points at the end when your team might need it - although i expect the necessity of this will be limited. Second, it'll be a great way to score and extra 12 points at the very end when you don't have time to race halfway around the track to try to hurdle on your side. These situations will be much more frequent than the first, i think, mostly due to the fact that it's a lot of points where otherwise you'd get none at all.

Both ways, however, are very situation-dependent, and as such shouldn't be something a team counts on every game to score them points.

for the winning alliance, it'll be a combination of all types of robots, i think. You'll have one that races around the track very quickly, and thats all it does. The other two will be a trade off against hurdling speed and ball control speed. I have no doubt that there will be teams that will be great at both of these. But many more teams will be great at one, and only ok at the other, and an alliance with two of these teams will be much better balanced than an alliance with an all-star bot and two mediocre bots. And as always, there will be teams where everything doesn't come together like you would hope.

[ALIBI]

Originally Posted by eagle33199

Placing really should only be done in the last few minutes, or someone might knock the ball down. it's protected the same as hurdling, i believe - after all, who is going to say we're trying to place or hurdle until we actually finish the maneuver? for us, the two look exactly the same. Placing will come into play in two ways - first, it'll be a great way to score an extra 4 points at the end when your team might need it - although i expect the necessity of this will be limited. Second, it'll be a great way to score and extra 12 points at the very end when you don't have time to race halfway around the track to try to hurdle on your side. These situations will be much more frequent than the first, i think, mostly due to the fact that it's a lot of points where otherwise you'd get none at all.

Both ways, however, are very situation-dependent, and as such shouldn't be something a team counts on every game to score them points.

for the winning alliance, it'll be a combination of all types of robots, i think. You'll have one that races around the track very quickly, and thats all it does. The other two will be a trade off against hurdling speed and ball control speed. I have no doubt that there will be teams that will be great at both of these. But many more teams will be great at one, and only ok at the other, and an alliance with two of these teams will be much better balanced than an alliance with an all-star bot and two mediocre bots. And as always, there will be teams where everything doesn't come together like you would hope.

It would be quite obvious that you are not hurdling when placing the trackball on your opponents overpass. And, I agree that all placing will take place in the last few (two) minutes. It just might be better to do it in the last few seconds. Don't you hate it when your fingers do not type what your mind is telling them to do? I know that my fingers do that all the time.

[JAZAD1]

one that is fast, low center of gravity but can still control the ball enough to hurdle. and i don't think that the reracking points will count that much because u can always nock their ball back off of the overpass the other direction so they don't get the hurdling points.

[1086VEX]

shooters are going to be way more efficent than an arm bot... reasons... we can it from hurdle from basically anywhere in our home zone, and we dont need to stop moving to hurdle we can just keep going full speed at all time!

[Donut]

Originally Posted by 1086VEX

...and we dont need to stop moving to hurdle we can just keep going full speed at all time!

And here I think will be the downfall of most catapult bots. When I see you coming around the corner full speed intending to hurdle, why on earth wouldn't I leave my robot somewhere in that last stretch so that you have to maneuver around me or even have to bump me to get through, throwing off your practiced timings and forcing your drivers to try to compensate on when to shoot? If two robots are shooting from the same position on the field, but one is at a dead stop and the other is moving at 15 ft/sec., the trajectory of their projectiles will be far different.

The best catapult bots will have drivers who know how to use their robot coming in at any speed at any angle. The others will be launching their ball short of or into the overpass, and maybe even out of the playing field, when opposing robots begin to take up space in the home stretch.

[CuriousGeorge]

Originally Posted by CraigHickman

Dude... Have you read this year's rule book? Mainly the large section about defensive pushing being strictly not allowed? You might want to go read it... And if "they" can hurdle faster, it means a few things: They're fast driving, which means it's hard to catch them. Oh wait, defense is banned! Whoops! They're fast at scoring, which means they will hurdle a LOT.

My prediction is that the winning team will have two runners to bring the ball around, with one very quick hurdler sending the ball over the pass FAST, with some sort of shooting/throwing mechanism.

i have... see what i love about teaching... u look AT the book.. not whats OUT of the book.. er.. box maybe a hint... loop-holes rule

[synth3tk]

Loop-hole? Let's hope that either: A) Your loophole is legitimate, or B) You're prepared to change your strategy/design on the fly in case it isn't legal.

[Donut]

Originally Posted by CraigHickman

My prediction is that the winning team will have two runners to bring the ball around, with one very quick hurdler sending the ball over the pass FAST, with some sort of shooting/throwing mechanism.

I think we may be on to something here...

I've been set from the beginning that an alliance with at least one non-hurdler will win, because the rules have not changed to allow 3 trackballs on the field. My opinion is unchanged until I see proof at a Regional that the non-hurdling bot is worthless.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by CraigHickman

Dude... Have you read this year's rule book? Mainly the large section about defensive pushing being strictly not allowed? You might want to go read it... And if "they" can hurdle faster, it means a few things: They're fast driving, which means it's hard to catch them. Oh wait, defense is banned! Whoops! They're fast at scoring, which means they will hurdle a LOT.

My prediction is that the winning team will have two runners to bring the ball around, with one very quick hurdler sending the ball over the pass FAST, with some sort of shooting/throwing mechanism.

Please quote your rule sections:

Originally Posted by rules

<G37>

b. Contact within the BUMPER ZONE is generally acceptable.

c. Contact outside of the BUMPER ZONE is generally not acceptable, and will result in aPENALTY. The offending ROBOT may be disqualified from the MATCH if the offense isparticularly egregious or if it results in substantial damage to another ROBOT. However,incidental contact outside of the BUMPER ZONE will not be penalized.

[feliks_rosenber]

I have thought from the very beginning that speedy robots will make that small difference and help their alliances win.

I still think that way.Since there are 2 balls and 3 robots one will have to do the laps and that is crucial.

It will be even more efficient during the hybrid mode.
If you can make many laps and fast you will score enough points to win the game even before it starts.

[Madison]

Scoring efficiently in this game is entirely dependent upon ball control. Teams will want to be in possession of the balls for as much of the match as possible so as to maximize opportunities to score. Teams that lose control of the ball for long periods of time will not do as well as those with methodical, repeatable scoring mechanisms.

Catapults hurdle faster than many arms might, but they impart a lot more energy unto the ball, making it considerably more time consuming and challenging to grab it again soon after. Arms and lifts, on the other hand, ought to balance potentially longer hurdle times with better efficiency in repossessing the balls. There is one catapult I've seen so far that effectively mitigates the problems with grabbing the ball -- 118. How and why I think that's true is left as an exercise to the reader.

Teams that cannot hurdle will only be effective if they can possess the trackball -- not herd it -- and release it from their grasp in short, controlled bursts as it crosses the finish line. Anyone that's kicking the ball down the field and chasing after it is wasting precious time.

Also, I largely think that running laps is a waste of time. One robot on each alliance ought to be running defense. Reducing the efficacy of a hurdler is much easier and much more effective than running a lap, both in terms of time required and its effect on the final score.

[rachal]

I've been seeing a lot of 118-style grabber-catapults on CD...theirs is the most effective design I've seen so far, I think

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

Please quote your rule sections:

I think he was probably refering to <G42>

<G42> Protection While HURDLING – Neither a ROBOT in the process of HURDLING, nor a
TRACKBALL in its POSSESSION, shall be subjected to overt, blatant, or aggressive contact
that interferes with the HURDLING attempt. Each incident will be PENALIZED. Bumping to
signal to pass (see Rule <G38>) a HURDLING ROBOT is permitted if no passing lane is
open (see Rule <G43>). Incidental contact while passing the HURDLING ROBOT or
otherwise engaged in normal game play is permitted.

In the first sentence, aggressive is probably redundant, since it is already outlawed in <G37>. However, overt and blatant contact is also not allowed while in the act of HURDLING. To me, that disallows all contact based defensive strategies (IE push them so the shoot the ball into the crowd instead of over the overpass).

The only question is the last part of the last sentence "otherwise engaged in normal game play". Since pushing has been a part of normal game play in the past, does that mean it is allowed this year. It really comes down to a matter of interpretation, and I haven't really seen a clarification in the Q/A

[D_Price]

Hey if u built a robot and it is shipped out at the date then you are a winner already...at competition if you win and go to atlanta that is a great add on bonus

[waialua359]

shooters will hands down be more efficient than using an arm....however, that wont be the issue. The issue will be grabbing control of the ball and putting yourself in a position to score. BUT, arms will no doubt be able to place and knock over balls from the overpass.
I think what makes the difference is during the hybrid/auto mode. If a team can take a 20+ point lead prior to tele op period, it will be hard to overcome.
I dont think running around a track can overcome any hurdler one on one.