Is there a place this year for robots that cant hurdle?

[Adama]

As stated in the title, If you can herd and remove balls but you cant hurdle will you be at a significant disadvantage?

Just looking for CD's thoughts

matt

[Taylor]

We're banking on NO. There are only two trackballs per alliance; at least one robot will have to find something else to do, whether that be running laps, "rebounding" the hurdled trackballs and returning them to the hurdlers, or something else.

[jgannon]

If not, somebody better tell JVN in a hurry.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=64839

[thefro526]

I think that there's a place on any alliance for someone who can't or choses not to hurdle. In a match like previously stated there are never more than 2 trackballs per alliance. Unless you're going to be doing some all-star amazing passes between three hurdler someone's going to need to either play defense or run laps.

Personally I think an alliance is going to need 2 decent hurdlers and one bot thats highly maneuverable and mildly powerful that can run laps and act as an annoyance to other teams. I think in some qualifying matches we're going to see the weakest hurdler (should there be three) be out in this defensive/lap scoring position. Also my theory be true I think we're going to see a lot of strong hurdlers pick another hurdler first and then a good lap runner second.

Also In this years game I like the fact that all you need is a working drivetrain to score. In the event of a catastrophic failure of all other scoring systems you may be saved by a working drivetrain. And tot hose of you who think that it can't happen it can and it will. In NJ last year I played 2 out of three of my matches without pneumatics and one of those with nothing but a right and left drive motor.

[waialua359]

A fast lap runner will run into traffic with 5 other robots and/or up to 4 balls on the field. A ferrari in traffic is no faster than a big rig truck. **extreme case** That's the disadvantage they will have.
Hurdlers will still be able to go around the track.
But the reverse scenarios cant happen.
IMO, that puts hurdlers at an advantage.

HOWEVER, there are levels of performance on how well teams can hurdle (speed and efficiency) which will affect outcome of matches.

During teleop period, the question will be, "Can a team hurdle at least once while a lapper runs around the track four times?"

Autonomous is the key.

[Scott Carpman]

There is certainly a place for gripperbot and racerbot. The ideal alliance this year is one shooterbot, one armbot, and then one agile gripperbot to reload the shooterbot. As long as the trackballs keep being fed into the shooterbot, the alliance could get upwards of 15 hurdles per match.

[s_forbes]

That probably depends on your lap times.

The way I see alliance pickings going this year, most alliances will consist of two hurdlers and one fast lap runner. If you can run laps faster than most other teams, then you probably have a good chance of being picked for eliminations. The fact that you can remove balls from the overpass is a plus.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Adama

As stated in the title, If you can herd and remove balls but you cant hurdle will you be at a significant disadvantage?

Just looking for CD's thoughts

matt

I believe that the non-hurdlers will make the difference in the games.

Hurdlers will mostly cancel esch other out and recieve the most defense against them, thus it will be the 'alternative scorers' that will make or break alliances.

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

I believe that the non-hurdlers will make the difference in the games.

Hurdlers will mostly cancel esch other out and recieve the most defense against them, thus it will be the 'alternative scorers' that will make or break alliances.

I'm not sure on this.
I think hurdlers will try and worry about grabbing their own ball and trying to hurdle, unless your talking at the end of matches.
Both teams that have alternative scorers can cancel each other out too.
If its 3 hurdlers vs a team of 2 with one alternative scorer, I can see your point. But in the playoffs, I dont think teams will do that knowing that only 2 balls in their alliance will only be available. In fact, I would rather have a robot that focuses on defense and not let teams put a ball up at the end instead of a lapper. A lapper will have a hard time stopping a robot from putting a ball on the overpass at the end, all else equal. That's 12 points bonus equivalent to a lapper who has to do 6 laps just to tie that feat. Autonomous is the difference maker.

[NOV8R]

I believe a defensive herder (not a racer) could make a big difference in the game. Continuous contact between a Robot and Trackball are permissble herding. You are also allowed to herd your opposition's trackballs. Robots may also push or react against any element of the arena. No where in the rules does it say you have to be moving to herd. So if a herding Robot hanging out just past the oppositions finish line can pin the opposition's Trackball against the wall following their opponents hurdle, the best hurdler now has no Trackball to to hurdle with. Defensive Trackball management. You gotta love it.

[waialua359]

True, but when we practiced, those dammn balls move like crazy a lot more than we originally thought (since they are relatively heavy and large).
Gripping/grabbing a ball will be tough too with traffic and a whole lot of robots on the field. That will waste just as much time as trying to do a hurdle.

[IndySam]

I'm thinking three hurdlers.

When one hurdles there will be one waiting to get the ball for their attempt and one with the other ball racing around to hurdle.

An effective three team relay will be unstoppable.

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by IndySam

I'm thinking three hurdlers.

When one hurdles there will be one waiting to get the ball for their attempt and one with the other ball racing around to hurdle.

An effective three team relay will be unstoppable.

Never thought about that. GOOD POINT!

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by IndySam

I'm thinking three hurdlers.

When one hurdles there will be one waiting to get the ball for their attempt and one with the other ball racing around to hurdle.

An effective three team relay will be unstoppable.

I think 1 outstanding hurdler and 2 highspeed herders, to bring the trackballs around, will win this year.

It'll be interesting to see the different playstyles and how they react.

Less than a week before BAE

[waialua359]

Well I guess we can all wait and see how matches play out during week 1 regionals. Too bad all of them are not NASA webcasted.