NJ Elim Yellow Card Oddity

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by George A.

But since the field itself was broken and needed repair ...

A Ha! Teams are prohibited from destroying the field or field elements. (That doesn't explain the group yellow card, though.)

[Swan217]

Originally Posted by Anne Shade

Actually Dan,

The team was warned during Qualifying matches, not eliminations. When teams enter eliminations, their slate is supposed to be wiped clean. However, this year's yellow card is to be given for "egregious" robot or team member actions. If the head ref thought the one time was egregious, the yellow card could have been given. That is up to that particular head referee's interpretation of the action. I'm not sure exactly which rule the head ref believed was violated "egregiously" in this case because I can't seem to find one. I guess you could lump it under S01...

My question is whether or not the timing of the yellow card was appropriate. The yellow card was given during the reset of the match. To me, that would mean the match had yet to be completed. Can a team receive a yellow card for a match that had yet to be completed? What if their robot had again rammed the player wall when they replayed the match, would the alliance get DQ'ed for receiving a second yellow card in the same match?

This kinda follows Dez's point about the time out being called during the middle of the match...

I totally agree with you about the timing issue - the Head Ref should've technically waited until after the match had completely ended before giving out a yellow card. Your second hypothetical is moot because generally a yellow card is severe enough punishment to correct the behavior or at minimum abort the hybrid strategy as to not risk getting a red card.

There is no rule that says that the "slate" is wiped clean for eliminations, only that cards do not carry over into eliminations. Unofficial warnings are given to prevent egregious behavior throughout the entire competition, and aren't official rulings on the field. The head ref might've thought that the team was performing programmed egregious behavior the first time, but gave the chance to correct the programmed behavior. Since the behavior was apparently not rectified to the satisfaction of the referee, and the behavior was not severe enough to deserve a DQ, a yellow card was given.

<T11> allows for red cards to be given to the entire alliance, but gives no procedure for yellow cards in elimination rounds. I'm not saying that this ref's interpretation was correct or incorrect, but giving the most likely reasoning. My interpretation up to this point was that a yellow card was given to an individual team on the alliance, but two yellow cards accrued by an alliance results in a DQ for the entire alliance in elims. This may be an incorrect interpretation of the rules. The correct interpretation will no doubt be resolved by the Head Refs this week before the next round of regionals.

At any rate, in general, yellow cards are really no big deal. If you get one you should take it seriously, but since there is no real consequence of a yellow card, save temporary embarrassment, there shouldn't be this much outrage over yellow cards. They're not attached to your "permanent record" and nobody cares about them after the tournament is finished. As defined in T05, a yellow card is an Official Warning, and nothing more.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by Dan Swando

At any rate, in general, yellow cards are really no big deal. If you get one you should take it seriously, but since there is no real consequence of a yellow card, save temporary embarrassment, there shouldn't be this much outrage over yellow cards. They're not attached to your "permanent record" and nobody cares about them after the tournament is finished. As defined in T05, a yellow card is an Official Warning, and nothing more.

I kinda hope teams don't just shrugs off Yellow Cards like this. Or, at least, I hope any team in the Elims doesn't. If you've gotten a Yellow Card, it's usually for a good reason, and it means the refs are going to be watching you a little more closely. If my team got carded in the elims I know we'd be a little more wary of our actions for fear of getting a second card and DQ'd. I can't imagine that a Yellow Card wouldn't have some sort of effect on a team unless they're completely oblivious and uncaring about how their actions might affect their alliance.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Also, the GDC came back with an answer and basically said "Not standard, but if the refs felt a multiple card was appropriate...."

Which seems a bit of a cop out. I can understand that they don't have all the details, etc. But some sort of statement saying the refs could if they felt the card was deserved for some action or collusion on the part of the whole alliance.... But based on even the vague answer provided and the fact that the announcer said it was for the autonomous driving of the one team... I'd say the refs missed the call with the group yellow card.

[Danny McC]

I actually felt pretty bad after I wasn't able to stop the bot in time. So I walked over and asked them if everything was ok and if I could do anything to help.

[Romino90]

Yeah I didn't get that my team was chanting random cheers (1403 cnt shut there mouths lol ) when they explained what was going on with that..was that the match the controller fell?

[thefro526]

This was quarter final 3-1, we went down in auto/hybrid and whacked the wall pretty hard and they originally thought someone's controller dislodged and unplugged. Well they had some kind weird problem and called a timeout and mean while we got yellow carded for ramming the player station in auto.

[StephLee]

Team control panels falling during auto/hybrid isn't necessarily a new thing. It happened to us (1629) in autonomous in 2006. There was no penalty for the opposing alliance, and we were given time to fix the panel before restarting the match. I don't agree with DQ'ing a team for it during hybrid, especially if the other team can run that match. (I'm refering to the match where 303 was DQ'd at NJ; someone correct me if I have information wrong, I was only watching the webcast.) A yellow card, I can understand, and a DQ for a subsequent infraction wouldn't be out of line, but a DQ for a first offense seems entirely too harsh to me.