Competition Professionalism

[henryBsick]

FIRST regional events have come to the point where I would second guess inviting in a new corporate sponsor to view the competition.
Take of it what you will. This is how I feel, I am curious if others share my sentiment.

[jgannon]

Can you clarify what you're talking about? Is there some sort of explicit dancing going on at your event, or are you concerned that a corporate representative might be offended by the sight of children (and sometimes adults!) having fun?

[mtaman02]

Sorry dude, I like the line dancing part of the competition, one it's a time killer and a chance for MAJOR repairs to be made not only to an on field competing team during elims but also to the field as well and or to catch back up w/ time if we should run the even a bit faster then normal.

I feel it's ok, if anything it should be made safer b/c of the field structure and robots that are nearby and all but that about it.

I don't see an issue. It allows for everyone to have fun, to help calm down the teams.

I would want to show a new potential coporate sponsor that kids and adults can have fun that competition is based on learning new things but also has a mixture of funness.

[EricH]

Just remember, the competition is not about corporate sponsors. Yes, they help, but the competition is not all about them. You've got a lot of high schoolers too.

The competition is not all about the students either. Dave said something about that a while ago (I think the last time the mentor/student debate came up, or the time before that).

The competition is about the teams. Corporate sponsors, high school students, engineers, administrators, parents, and mentors all have their place. The hardest part is balancing all the elements.

Sometimes, the best attractant for a sponsor/mentor is that they can feel young again. That said, the same thing can also be a repellent.

I don't know here. I have mixed feelings.

[henryBsick]

I am using the corporate sponsor example much like a 'bar' that should be at par with our 'professional' actions.
I am not against having a good time, I just don't feel that a dance marathon in a professional setting is appropriate.
Yes, it is a huge time killer, which I see as a very large problem. I have seen one too many a time out get extend well beyond any reasonable sanctioned length because of dances going on.

I guess when it really comes down to it, the thing that frustrates me most is when a high schooler is excited about a robotics competition coming up... WHY are they excited?

For me, it sure as anything was the robots and competition.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Henry_222

I am using the corporate sponsor example much like a 'bar' that should be at par with our 'professional' actions.
I am not against having a good time, I just don't feel that a dance marathon in a professional setting is appropriate.
Yes, it is a huge time killer, which I see as a very large problem. I have seen one too many a time out get extend well beyond any reasonable sanctioned length because of dances going on.

I guess when it really comes down to it, the thing that frustrates me most is when a high schooler is excited about a robotics competition coming up... WHY are they excited?

For me, it sure as anything was the robots and competition.

I don't see the line danceing as anything different than cheerlearers at a football game.

These regionals are supposed to be an 'event' ... and I see no problems with young people (and some of us old farts) having fun.

[Laaba 80]

Originally Posted by Henry_222

I am not against having a good time, I just don't feel that a dance marathon in a professional setting is appropriate.

I agree with you that is not appropriate for a professional setting..... The thing is that we arent a professional setting. FIRST is like nothing else around, we have serious competition, while still having fun. Teams arent professional, remember most are a high school club. Do you think a high school football game is a professional setting?

Originally Posted by Henry_222

I guess when it really comes down to it, the thing that frustrates me most is when a high schooler is excited about a robotics competition coming up... WHY are they excited?
For me, it sure as anything was the robots and competition.

Why does it matter?? FIRST isn't all about the robots. Competitions are a chance for you to show off all of what you accomplished. It is also about meeting new people and having fun, while still being respectful.

If you took away all the dancing and other things, it will just make the competition boreing, and people wont look forward to them.


I am guessing that you are a volunteer for tournaments, and you dont like the dancing because it takes up time and makes you get home later. I'm not sure if this is true, and I dont think that there is anything wrong with that. I volunteered at the FTC tournament in Appleton last week. I had to hand out crystals, and it did get boreing. I dont mind how long it takes though, because its all about the teams participating. I also know as being a part of FLL and FRC since I was in 4th grade that I like that kind of stuff while participating. I understand where you are coming from, and I had this problem when I started volunteering, but I remembered how much fun I had with it. Look at it from a teams perspective, it really will make volunteering at the competition more enjoyable.
Joey

[Danny McC]

I have no problem with the dancing. It does give time for repairs sometimes. And also, first is supposed to be professional, yes. But the dancing that happens at the competitions is just high school students being high school students. It shows a lot of team spirit I think. There is an award for team spirit and a lot of the people who win are the ones who are dancings and doing all those things.

[JaneYoung]

I hope we can continue to celebrate FIRST in the manner that we do - inviting everyone to be a part of the celebration and encouraging everyone to have a great time. The competition, the music, the dance lines, the awesome MCs and game announcers, the interactions of the teams, the visiting guests which include VIPs and potential sponsors. I hope these celebrations continue to reflect the increasing impact of the goals of FIRST, the influence of Gracious Professionalism, and the affect on the lives of everyone involved.

Dancing at FIRST competitions is a great way for everyone to enjoy the event. If you look at the faces of the judges, they are enjoying being a part of the celebration and fun as much as anyone.

I have never picketed in my life but if we were to stop the chicken dance, I might have to wear a placard that says: save the chicken dance!

[Romino90]

wheres the fun with out the dancing ..why don't we have halo tournaments instead during the brake between matches LOL

[Danny McC]

Also to add.... if the dancing is so bad why do the juges and refs dance to the YMCA? =)

[henryBsick]

Originally Posted by Laaba 80

I agree with you that is not appropriate for a professional setting..... The thing is that we arent a professional setting. FIRST is like nothing else around, we have serious competition, while still having fun. Teams arent professional, remember most are a high school club. Do you think a high school football game is a professional setting?



Why does it matter?? FIRST isn't all about the robots. Competitions are a chance for you to show off all of what you accomplished. It is also about meeting new people and having fun, while still being respectful.

If you took away all the dancing and other things, it will just make the competition boreing, and people wont look forward to them.


I am guessing that you are a volunteer for tournaments, and you dont like the dancing because it takes up time and makes you get home later. I'm not sure if this is true, and I dont think that there is anything wrong with that. I volunteered at the FTC tournament in Appleton last week. I had to hand out crystals, and it did get boreing. I dont mind how long it takes though, because its all about the teams participating. I also know as being a part of FLL and FRC since I was in 4th grade that I like that kind of stuff while participating. I understand where you are coming from, and I had this problem when I started volunteering, but I remembered how much fun I had with it. Look at it from a teams perspective, it really will make volunteering at the competition more enjoyable.
Joey

I am a volunteer in the mentor sense. Team #125 and various other teams in the Boston area. I have also been involved since 7th grade lego league.
For this discussion, we can assume that I don't care at what time I get home.
I am lividly afraid that there are kids out there who go to the events and have nothing, and had nothing, to do with the robot. It is only a social event. Where is the inspiration and recognition in that?

Comparing a football game to FIRST is probably a little bit off, like you said FIRST isn't like anything else around.

Originally Posted by Romino90

wheres the fun with out the dancing ..why don't we have halo tournaments instead during the brake between matches LOL

You are more or less proving my point.

Originally Posted by TdorTheBnator

I have no problem with the dancing. It does give time for repairs sometimes. And also, first is supposed to be professional, yes. But the dancing that happens at the competitions is just high school students being high school students. It shows a lot of team spirit I think. There is an award for team spirit and a lot of the people who win are the ones who are dancings and doing all those things.

The time for repairs is sanctioned in the game and rules itself. Extensions past that are not provided for in the rules. One 6 minute period is still 6 minutes even if the YMCA may be 7 minutes long.

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

I hope we can continue to celebrate FIRST in the manner that we do - inviting everyone to be a part of the celebration and encouraging everyone to have a great time. The competition, the music, the dance lines, the awesome MCs and game announcers, the interactions of the teams, the visiting guests which include VIPs and potential sponsors. I hope these celebrations continue to reflect the increasing impact of the goals of FIRST, the influence of Gracious Professionalism, and the affect on the lives of everyone involved.

Dancing at FIRST competitions is a great way for everyone to enjoy the event. If you look at the faces of the judges, they are enjoying being a part of the celebration and fun as much as anyone.

I have never picketed in my life but if we were to stop the chicken dance, I might have to wear a placard that says: save the chicken dance!

Jane, I am just as excited as the next guy for robotic competitions. I really fear though that a lot of the students celebrating are doing so in the dark. I don't think that a majority of kids are actually gaining any insight to science and technology. As FIRST continues to grow, we cannot only be focused on the quantitative analysis, but the qualitative effect it has on each and every student.
5 students who gain an engineering education from FIRST is better than 100 who don't learn a thing.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Henry_222

Jane, I am just as excited as the next guy for robotic competitions. I really fear though that a lot of the students celebrating are doing so in the dark. I don't think that a majority of kids are actually gaining any insight to science and technology. As FIRST continues to grow, we cannot only be focused on the quantitative analysis, but the qualitative effect it has on each and every student.
5 students who gain an engineering education from FIRST is better than 100 who don't learn a thing.

Oh.
Maybe we are not on the same page to begin with. What you are expressing in this quote that I've included in my post is the impact of science and technology on the students. The effect of the FIRST experience on them. If I have this wrong, correct me.

To me, the competitions are the culmination of the build experience of the team. Yes, there are people who drop by an outreach event and a competition and they are inspired by the robots/the competition. But the teams are made up of team members who have worked together to create the robot and prepare it for the competition. Therein lies a big part of the inspiration, the impact of the experience on the students and where they will take that experience in their careers.

I can honestly see a thread started to address your concerns about the FIRST effect on students. I see that as a different topic than the celebration and dancing at a FIRST Robotics competition.

[Laaba 80]

Originally Posted by Henry_222

I am lividly afraid that there are kids out there who go to the events and have nothing, and had nothing, to do with the robot. It is only a social event. Where is the inspiration and recognition in that?

I do agree with there, but what can you do about kids who dont get involved. On our team, members can be a part of whatever group they want to be. It is all ready for them, there are more experienced students and mentors there to teach them, all they need to do is commit to doing it. The problem is that many don't. This is disappointing, however it is not all bad. Not all members on our team do things with the robot. We have some members wo work on PR, award submissions, and Special projects. We also have 1 student who is a rookie this year, and is fully commited and interested in the robot, however he lives 30+ minutes away, so he cant come as often as some. I'm sure however that there are just some kids who are just along for the ride, and like the competitions. My rookie year I was a programmer and I only went in about 2-3 days a week. The competitions were fun, however the next years will be even better. The last two years I have been going in alot, this year I have been there every day except for 2 or 3 because I had to go to band. It really is more fun when you contribute more because you see something succeding that YOU worked on, it feels good. I agree with you here, however I dont this this applys to the dancing very much. People still enjoy the matches, it is just like watching a sporting event, the dancing is just a fill in.
Joey

[Alalea]

I think that a lot of FIRST is having fun. If we have to stand rigidly through the entire thing, where's the fun? Sure, there's work, but there has to be some fun in it, too!