Saving seats and Dean's homework

[PinionTwister]

I attended the Midwest Regional this weekend - great event. I was frustrated once again about trying to find a place to sit as many seats seemed to be "saved" by coats, bags or whatever. When I located some empty seats I was welcomed with comments like "those seats are saved" or "someone is sitting there." Or, people would sit in every other seat in order to save entire sections of seating. There was a couple of seats that I sat in to be pushed out of because they were "saved for someone." Exerting GP I moved to another seat only to watch NO ONE sit in the "saved" seats for the entire afternoon.

I was not wearing team logo - the people saving the seats would not know whether I was a corporate sponsor or a general member of the public.

It frustrates me because Dean wants us to invite the public to attend our events. How will the public be treated when there is no open seating - and then, when someone sits in an available seat they are discouraged from being there. Is this the way we want to treat the public??

I wonder, if my mother came to the event and was looking for a place to sit would she be welcomed like she should be!

Clearly, FIRST has always said there is no saved seating. How come people forget about this.

Perhaps Dean's homework should have been a refresher course on GP - for teams and parents!

[SL8]

I had never thought of it in the way that you said it , though I personally don't advocate saving seat. I would not want to have invited or even general public come in and be treated that way. Perhaps this is something we can work on ourselves.

[Danny McC]

I also do not agree with the seat saving. I have gotten my teammates mad at a me a few time in the past because I did not save them a seat. If you want to get people interested it's not the smartest thing to tell them they can't sit down because the seat is saved for someone who may not come back for an hour. And plus I like sitting next to people who don't know anything about the game. It gives me a chance to explain to them what the game is and what FIRST is all about.

[Dave Campbell]

Next time look for 1038, we'll welcome you into any open seat near us, give you buttons, and urge you to cheer on the teams on the field. We'll gladly move any belongings of our team mates that have moved to scout in the pits or are buying food, or who have volunteered to work at the event.

[Tom Line]

I think the best thing to do is announce, over the loud speaker and by message on the big screen, that there is NO SAVING SEATS.

Frankly, every time I've encountered this, it has not been a team member or a mentor. It has been a parent or other attendee who probably has not been well schooled in gracious professionalism and does not yet have the vision of how we should act at events.

Instead, they're acting like it's a movie theater where if they get there first, it's "theirs".

Announcements over the loud speakers etc would remind newcomers and would lend teams some needed support when they have to tell someone "while I appreciate that you'd like to save this seat, it's not allowed at a First Competition Venue" - and promptly sit themselves down.

[Laaba 80]

I have mixed feelings on this issue. I understand where you guys are coming from and it does make sence. However if you dont save seats, your team may not get to sit together. I think one of the coolest things is looking in the stands and seeing a large team sitting next to eachother. A good example of this was the killer bees from midwest. They had yellow uniforms, and all sat in one area. When their team went, their whole section was jumping and cheering. I just dont think it would be as cool if teams were scattered around. I could see this issue both ways, and dont see it getting fixed.
Joey

[Koko Ed]

We are one of those teams that saves seats.
We find it very important to have our team sit together. Having kids spread all over the arena gives off the impression of a lack of cohesiveness and it helps the teachers keep track of what are kids are doing at what time during the event. We do not chase people away though. If you want to sit with us go ahead. Just be prepared to be assimilated into the X-Cats way.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

We are one of those teams that saves seats.
We find it very important to have our team sit together. Having kids spread all over the arena gives off the impression of a lack of cohesiveness and it helps the teachers keep track of what are kids are doing at what time during the event. We do not chase people away though. If you want to sit with us go ahead. Just be prepared to be assimilated into the X-Cats way.

I totally agree, that's how MORT is. We saved seats as soon as we got to the arena on Saturday not only b/c we have a huge team, but b/c its the final day and everyone, I mean EVERYONE comes. Those of you who saw our team at Trenton know how massive our team is. You kinda can't miss the sea of yellow and black But also, teams sometimes save seats in order to have organized scouting and have alternates ready at hand. This is something very important to teams who scout well.

Also, if your team has had the same spot for the last 2 day of competition, let another team take it. Its a little unfair if another team has to sit all the way up in the stands when you have perfect seats throughout the regional. This happened to us and it made scouting,cheering, and also getting out of the arena a lot harder. We actually had people come from other teams constantly asking us if we "really needed those seats" and we assured them that they would be filled up. But yet again, we were asked over and over and finally, at the end of the day, it turned out that we needed more seats than that certain area of the stands had. So yeah...save seats only when you need to.

[dbell]

Originally Posted by lilstogi11

I totally agree, that's how MORT is. We saved seats as soon as we got to the arena on Saturday not only b/c we have a huge team, but b/c its the final day and everyone, I mean EVERYONE comes. Those of you who saw our team at Trenton know how massive our team is. You kinda can't miss the sea of yellow and black But also, teams sometimes save seats in order to have organized scouting and have alternates ready at hand. This is something very important to teams who scout well.

Also, if your team has had the same spot for the last 2 day of competition, let another team take it. Its a little unfair if another team has to sit all the way up in the stands when you have perfect seats throughout the regional. This happened to us and it made scouting,cheering, and also getting out of the arena a lot harder. We actually had people come from other teams constantly asking us if we "really needed those seats" and we assured them that they would be filled up. But yet again, we were asked over and over and finally, at the end of the day, it turned out that we needed more seats than that certain area of the stands had. So yeah...save seats only when you need to.

wow, what a complicated issue.
First off, I do respect teams MORT and the X-cats. However, it seems that they are clearly breaking a policy by FIRST.

3.16 BLEACHER RULES
Sitting together in a group during competition matches makes the game more exciting and fun. It’s where you can show support for your team. Since very often there is not enough seating to accommodate everyone, there has to be a policy regarding seating. Teams are not allowed to save seating space. With this in mind, it is not permitted to hang banners or ribbons to designate such an area. We will remove and discard banners or roping, etc. Please take turns sitting in the bleachers. Share the fun. When you see there is a crowding problem, leave after your team's match and return later for another few matches.
It says: Teams are not allowed to save seating space.

To me it seems to me like there isn't enough room for every member and fan of every team to sit together, and still have room for any non-team spectators to sit. I agree that this is a problem that must be solved for Deans homework to succeed. Here is a possible solution:
Have designated areas for "Spectators Only". This could be one or two seating sections where anyone with a team shirt is not allowed. Anyone from the general public can sit here. This section should have a good view, so that non-team spectators can enjoy the event. Then, even if teams save seats, there is still a place for spectators.

Just my thoughts,
DB

[SL8]

Originally Posted by dbell

Have designated areas for "Spectators Only". This could be one or two seating sections where anyone with a team shirt is not allowed. Anyone from the general public can sit here. This section should have a good view, so that non-team spectators can enjoy the event. Then, even if teams save seats, there is still a place for spectators. DB

The problem I have with this arrangment is that it helps create an us and them attitude. I think if the public sat with a team even though they aren't
associated, I feel like they would recieve more of the experience.
I definitely wouldn't want our Gen. Shoemaker to be told that " this seat is saved." If you don't know who he is look him up.
-Jesus

[aksimhal]

My personal opinion is that there just aren't enough seats for everyone in the first place. At VCU last year, almost all the seats were taken! Maybe FIRST needs bigger venues?

Just my two cents

[jayjaywalker3]

Originally Posted by lilstogi11

Those of you who saw our team at Trenton know how massive our team is. You kinda can't miss the sea of yellow and black But also, teams sometimes save seats in order to have organized scouting and have alternates ready at hand. This is something very important to teams who scout well.

Also, if your team has had the same spot for the last 2 day of competition, let another team take it. Its a little unfair if another team has to sit all the way up in the stands when you have perfect seats throughout the regional. This happened to us and it made scouting,cheering, and also getting out of the arena a lot harder.

Yeah you guys definitely had a presence especially since you were sitting in front of my team. I have to say though that the scouting was really good from where we were sitting one section up.

[Matt H.]

I believe the problem here is that many teams have metaphorically said "to heck with the rules we are going to save seats". The rules are very clear on the subject--it is just a matter of disregard for them coupled with no enforcement which makes it a problem. I've have been sitting in seats for several hours only to have teams come and DEMAND that I move because it is their area. (Failure to comply is generally met with muttering crowding and attempts to make me feel out of place)
I understand the desire for cohesiveness within a team and the obvious solution is to seat your team in an area where no one else will want to sit (high seats, poor viewing angle, etc). Such is the price of having your team as one unit.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Matt H.

I believe the problem here is that many teams have metaphorically said "to heck with the rules we are going to save seats". The rules are very clear on the subject--it is just a matter of disregard for them coupled with no enforcement which makes it a problem. I've have been sitting in seats for several hours only to have teams come and DEMAND that I move because it is their area. (Failure to comply is generally met with muttering crowding and attempts to make me feel out of place)
I understand the desire for cohesiveness within a team and the obvious solution is to seat your team in an area where no one else will want to sit (high seats, poor viewing angle, etc). Such is the price of having your team as one unit.

To me, that would be a real pain. I would hate to be demanded to move. I would gladly clear up some spaces and have members not skip seats at all to accommodate others who ask. We'll always have spaces open if you ask and heck, we'll gladly cheer on for your team as well (maybe if we're not playing you that round j/k).

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Matt H.

I believe the problem here is that many teams have metaphorically said "to heck with the rules we are going to save seats". The rules are very clear on the subject--it is just a matter of disregard for them coupled with no enforcement which makes it a problem. I've have been sitting in seats for several hours only to have teams come and DEMAND that I move because it is their area. (Failure to comply is generally met with muttering crowding and attempts to make me feel out of place)
I understand the desire for cohesiveness within a team and the obvious solution is to seat your team in an area where no one else will want to sit (high seats, poor viewing angle, etc). Such is the price of having your team as one unit.

I wonder if the judges for the GP or regional chairmans awards should take a walk up into the stands (with a regular shirt instead of the judges shirt) and see about seating.

It would be interesting to see if the judges felt the same way about a team after being told that they could not sit there because it was "reserved".