Look Back: Week 5

[Craig Roys]

Originally Posted by vadyr

I can only hope to see a match where all four balls are pinned and the other two robots are just cruising around running laps -- then what would be said.

I cannot envision this ever happening (of course, never say never, eh?). The only reason an alliance would choose that strategy is if they were going up against 2 or 3 good hurdlers with only 1 or none on their side. Two alliances going against each other when both have 2 or 3 good hurdlers are going to send 1 'bot out for defense and the other 2 will hurdle/lap or maybe play keep away, but not pinning. I won't say it would never happen, but it would be a strange scenario. I believe that in this type of match up, the alliances would opt for the "shootout" as they are offesively minded teams - look at the finals in Detroit. They were some of the highest total scoring matches that I've seen.

As for teams with hurdling robots getting mad a teams who play a defensive/pinning type game - no way. We are a hurdling robot and had a ton of defense play on us at GLR. Did I get frustrated with it? Yes. Did I get mad at the other team for doing it? Heck, no! I congratulate them for a strategy that worked for them. It's called competition - do what you can within the rules (and without trying to harm another robot) to gain an advantage. I would say there is nothing ungracious or unprofessional about playing a defensive strategy - this coming from an offensively minded team.

[T3_1565]

Originally Posted by Craig Roys

I cannot envision this ever happening (of course, never say never, eh?). The only reason an alliance would choose that strategy is if they were going up against 2 or 3 good hurdlers with only 1 or none on their side. Two alliances going against each other when both have 2 or 3 good hurdlers are going to send 1 'bot out for defense and the other 2 will hurdle/lap or maybe play keep away, but not pinning. I won't say it would never happen, but it would be a strange scenario. I believe that in this type of match up, the alliances would opt for the "shootout" as they are offesively minded teams - look at the finals in Detroit. They were some of the highest total scoring matches that I've seen.

As for teams with hurdling robots getting mad a teams who play a defensive/pinning type game - no way. We are a hurdling robot and had a ton of defense play on us at GLR. Did I get frustrated with it? Yes. Did I get mad at the other team for doing it? Heck, no! I congratulate them for a strategy that worked for them. It's called competition - do what you can within the rules (and without trying to harm another robot) to gain an advantage. I would say there is nothing ungracious or unprofessional about playing a defensive strategy - this coming from an offensively minded team.

Agreed, defense is in every other sport that involves a team vs team interaction... so get use to it, it's much like a basetball team calling a foul on purpose to pause the clock, or a pitcher intentionally hitting the other teams best batter (or walking them on purpose)

[Rick TYler]

Originally Posted by T3_1565

it's much like a basetball team calling a foul on purpose to pause the clock, or a pitcher intentionally hitting the other teams best batter (or walking them on purpose)

Hitting batters with the ball is done for a variety of reasons, but not just "defense." The intentional walk is a better analogy.

This approach -- taking a tactical penalty to further a strategic goal -- is one that I've only seen a couple of times so far. In particular, I saw bot commit an intentional <G22> to knock loose an alliance partner that was jammed up under the overpass. It was the right choice. I'd still like to see someone POSSESS an opponent's trackball for 115 seconds and see what the referees do. As the rules are written, it looks like all they could do is give one 10-point penalty. Six Krispy Kremes (or equivalent) to a team that tries it and lets me know what happens.

[meaubry]

Rick TYler,
Funny you should mention that, because it actually occurred in our 2nd match at GLR.
A robot on the opposing alliance was trying to herd our color ball and the drivers drove into the corner of the field getting stuck in the fence, with one of our balls in their grippers and unable to get themselves free and unable to get rid of our ball.
They were assessed a single 10 point penalty.
Because they had driven into the fence, it was clearly an accident - but there we were, 3 against 2, but - with only one ball to hurdle. Fortunately for us, we won that match, but it could have gone the other way too.
How much do you think the team stuck in the fence should have been penalized? It's a tough call, I'd hate to just keep piling on the penalties - Lord knows, theres already way too many for my liking.

Mike

[Mike Harrison]

Originally Posted by Rick TYler

I'd still like to see someone POSSESS an opponent's trackball for 115 seconds and see what the referees do. As the rules are written, it looks like all they could do is give one 10-point penalty. Six Krispy Kremes (or equivalent) to a team that tries it and lets me know what happens.

I'm all for Krispy Kremes, but I'm not all for causing the GDC to have to create a new update because someone decided to get cute.

[waialua359]

As I read the rules in the last few posts and what is allowed/not allowed, it ultimately comes down to what refs call. I will say again, that the best thing to do is talk to the refs on practice day, try and things out and see what's being called/not called as we all play "legally" and with GP.
Personally, I think blocking robots outside the home stretch for robots not hurdling is good defense, when done with bumper-bumper contact. Trapping balls in the corner is good defense because, regardless of boringness, it is allowed and part of the game. We should not let others dictate how it should be played because of personal feelings. Rules are rules. If a team follows them trying to win matches, it falls within the realm of GP.

It was done to us many of times and we accept it because its part of the game, no penalties were called, and the only thing intentional by the opponents is trying to prevent us from getting the ball and/or scoring.

[mark johnson]

Originally Posted by Mike Ross

The way you guys fed 217 in the quarters was awesome, considering the #8 alliance did such a good job of keeping balls away from them. When you started getting 3 or 4 hurdles a match, I was in shock. I kept asking people "How on earth were they available as the last pick of the draft?!?" I'm not sure whether this speaks more about the importance of good scouting, or the depth of the field at GLR. Either way, you guys were great.

Thank you for the complement. But your right a combination of the depth of talent at GLR, and great scouting by 66 The Flyers & 217 The Thunderchickens . SALUTE

[IKE]

I am from a very offensive team. Defense is part of teh strategy and I was very happen to see it being done well. 66 did a fantastic job at keeping the ball away from us and one of our partners 201 really worked over the thunderchikens.
My only gripe with defense was that in the eliminations there were several contact outside the bumper zone calls called on many of the hurdling teams (27, 217, 33, 67, 70, 494......). In one particular match we got 2 (yep -20 points) for a "defensive" bot hitting our arm. Let me clarify this. We were going for the ball and they drove into our arm and we got the penalty. Due to this interpretation of "incidental" contact not being "incidental", we could no longer play the game the way we had at other regionals and for that matter the rest of the weekend. It was very disheartening to go from only having a couple line penalties the first day and 1/2 to 7 (haven't reviewed the tapes yet, but this is about right) contact penalties in 6 matches. I have no problem with well driven tenacious D. I do have a problem with light touch fouls. Since this contact rule is the same as last year, I have a hard time understanding how there are so many penalties this year. Should Arm bots just pack it up?

[waialua359]

You have a pretty good point here.
We got called for that which was our only penalty called on us in Hawaii during the elim quarter finals round. We have two claws that go for the ball.
Clearly, we were trying to get it as the other team played defense (keep away). If they run into our arm, I have no gripes about it as its defense. However, how can we be called for a penalty when they are going into our arm mechanism as we are going for the ball? The same goes for autonomous.
Other than that, the refereeing was consistant and we love Jeff as the head ref!

[nikeairmancurry]

I can't say to much here, but from my stand point i feel we played a very clean defense through the elimations. One instance that i feel i hurt another robots chances were when i bumped 47 and they got stuck on the rack..sorry for not saying that ealier i just saw some video.. sorry 47 .

But as a watcher of the matches it seemed like the robots with arms caused alot of those penetlites and probably didn't deserve them. I know both martin teams had issues and so did the hot team where they got 3 of those penentiles in a match.

Now i feel that defenvise was intended in the game, but you need to have a driver who is smart enough to know when to let up and watch the refs as they start counting down and can just drive smart. I can't say i have been perfect ( i have recieved but 4 penentiles this year) but i can say i have been smart in what kind of denesive i needed to do in order to help take that #7 alliance to the finals.

[IKE]

Looking Forward:
I got a little sidetracked and almost forgot the intent of this thread. I would really like to thank the people responsible for the Looking Forward and the Looking Back Predictions/Follow Up. As we go to nationals, I am using this as a highlight real to know who to check out. I am assuming after the divisions are posted there will be a Looking Forward Post for Nationals. Am I correct?

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by IKE

Looking Forward:
I got a little sidetracked and almost forgot the intent of this thread. I would really like to thank the people responsible for the Looking Forward and the Looking Back Predictions/Follow Up. As we go to nationals, I am using this as a highlight real to know who to check out. I am assuming after the divisions are posted there will be a Looking Forward Post for Nationals. Am I correct?

Not sure if that was going to happen, but that would be cool! Instead of predicting every regional for the week with analysis, an analysis of each division with predicted winners and the ultimate winner on Einstein.

I would love to see an all arm alliance vs an all shooter alliance where the shooters have a slight lead, only for the arm alliance to try and win by placing balls at the end on one end. While on the other end, a full arsenal of offensive bots vs. decent scorer with excellent defensive bots that shutdown the offensive bots type of match. Ohhhhh, the suspense.