Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?

[dbell]

So...
We've seen them each win regionals, and together win the championship event. There is no question that they are a GREAT alliance. But are they the best? Is there an alliance that could beat 1114, 217, and 148? Or not?
What do you think?

This thread was inspired by this thread.

[Molten]

Nobody is unbeatable. I don't even have to look at their bots to tell you yes. They are beatable. Now the question is, are they going to be beat? don't know. Just going to wait and see.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Molten

Nobody is unbeatable. I don't even have to look at their bots to tell you yes. They are beatable. Now the question is, are they going to be beat? don't know. Just going to wait and see.

They did lose a semifinal match on Einstein, as I recall. So they are beatable. The question is, is it possible to beat them twice with the same alliance?

[sgreco]

Originally Posted by EricH

They did lose a semifinal match on Einstein, as I recall. So they are beatable. The question is, is it possible to beat them twice with the same alliance?

You are right they were beaten however, the first semifinal match 1114, 217 and 148 played on Einstein I believe 217 was tipped over. I know that winning with the other team tipped over is still legitimate.

I think that the last semifinal match on Einstein that 1114, 217 and 148 played was a better indication that they are beatable. I beleive 968 missed a premature hurdle and had to turn around to recover, later in the match they shot the ball out of the playing field. In that match I beleive 60 had two breaking the plane penalties as well. Without these mistakes 968 233 and 60 would have advanced to the finals. I know staying mistake free is part of being a good competitor, but I can definitely see 968, 233, and 60 beating 1114, 217 and 148. (obviously not every time though)

[tennispro9911]

Originally Posted by acdcfan259

I think you mean 148, 118 is the Robonauts.

Wups. Yes I do. I especially shouldn't have made that mistake because our team competed on Curie with the Robonauts this year.

[R.C.]

One quick thing 968, 233, and 60 beat 1114, 217, 148 the first two matches. They lost one of those 2 matches because of i think a 50 point penalty. i honestly thought that 968, 233, and 60 were going to win it all.

[Cory]

Technically speaking, they are unbeatable, because the 3 will have no more opportunities to pair up

[Pavan Dave]

No FRC match can ever be "duplicated". Why? Because I know from experience that one match you could be in tip top shape and the next match you are on three out of four wheels.

Those 3 machines many of you speak of in such a "godly" way tend to forget good ole Murphy! He is a very very good friend of mine that many of you know. When he visits, there is no telling what is going to happen.



Pavan

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[astephen68]

i Think if 2056 made it to the einstein field they could have maybe beat them with idk towo other alliance partners because in waterloo, there was two matches that 1114 lost, one was because their alliance partners got them 60 points of penatlies and the other one they lost to 2056. it was literally 2056 vs 1114 in that match because they were doing the scoring.

[commodoredl]

Yes, they are definitely beatable, as it did happen on Einstein. Beating them twice, though, is very challenging. And if you were to custom-tailor an alliance just to beat those three, it probably wouldn't be able to stand up to other teams or perform as well in other matches.
The alliance I can see beating the SimChickenWranglers consists of 20, 330, and 2106.
The strategy is a total trackball defense one. I would have 20 grab an opponent ball right at the start of tele, incurring a 10 point penalty. 2106 would use its chain driven manipulator to surround an opponent ball and grip it just enough that it is still herded, not possessed, and therefore not incurring any penalties. Then they must stay in the corner holding the ball the whole match.
Meanwhile, 20 would be lapping like crazy with their bot while playing keep-away with the trackball, to try and overcome the penalty points. I can see them getting 7-9 laps in tele, so that's 14-18 points.
Lastly, 330 would need to use its ability to herd while possessing to control both of its trackballs, and double hurdle every chance it can get. I don't see the other alliance trying to play the same trackball possession game, but if they do only the ThunderChickens can really hold onto the ball without possessing it. 148 and 217's defense could be problematic.
So, after all is said and done, I think that a real aggressive defense would probably be the best way to win. If they can keep up in Hybrid (20 can get 5 lines, 330 3, 2106 2 maybe, and the alliance might get a ball down), and be within ten points, then it's definitely a viable strategy.

In any other match, this alliance would be very strong with the dual-hurdling of 20 and 330 combined with my proposed trackball defense for 2106.

[JackN]

I will echo what Sean said, when these three are at their top level they are very hard to beat. If 217/148 had their hybrids at the level they were at earlier in the season i think it becomes an even bigger challenge. But if I were to pick three teams that would be able to do it, it would go like this 968/67/195. These three have the hybrid mode abilities to easily be tied with if not in the lead of the Simchicken Wranglers. Also 195 has the speed to race 1114/217 to any ball and prevent them from getting it (As seen in the Galileo Semis). RAWC and HOT have the scoring ability to keep up and the pick-up abilities to be able to deal with 148's defense. If the Robowranglers can pin a ball HOT can either get the ball out/switch to defense to defend 217. Obviously this discussion is moot if any of the teams on either alliance breaks down.

[thefro526]

In all seriousness, 1114, 217, 148 came close to losing a lot more than what most people seem to understand. If you notice they were outscored at least twice if not more times on their way onto Einstein but anytime they were out scored the opposing alliance received at enough penalties to negate the points lead. After seeing 254, 1717 and (???) almost beat them in Galileo I know they can be beat. 1114's biggest advantage is their autonomous consistency and the fact that it's illegal to try to block them. If this were like games of past years then it would be an entirely different issue in autonomous. At that point there are many strong hurdlers that could run with them. 254,968,16,67,233,2056, and 330 are the first to come to mind. I think in a straight up scoring match 330 and 254/968 and a quick lap runner could definitely give the current world champs a run for their money.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by thefro526

After seeing 254, 1717 and (???) almost beat them in Galileo I know they can be beat.

That would be 384, Sparky. I'm curious what you meant by the 1717, 254, 384 almost beating them. 1114/217/148 won in two matches, 114-58 and 150-58. It was a pretty handy beat down (no offense to the losing teams). 384 couldn't replicate the defense that gave 1114 and 217 trouble earlier, 217 was as mechanically sound as it was the entire eliminations, and the Poofs and Penguins couldn't find their rhythm. That was as convincing as I saw the Galileo #1 alliance the entire event.

[Tim Delles]

Honestly,

With John, Paul, and Karthik (the Big 3 that come to mind... i know there are plenty of amazing scouts behind each one) on the same team, they could make cardboard boxes win matches... its just what they do...

However are they beatable... obviously with what we saw during the season is that they were not beatable (best of 3). However if you were to say is there ANY alliance out there that could beat them? The answer is yes. Here are just a few alliances i think could have beat them:

968, 67, 60
968 - 254 - 330
1124 - 1024 - 968

These are just a few... I have 968 on each of these, because i believe they have the BEST robot, but not the best drive team/strategy as proven by the Simbo-Chicken-Wranglers.

Anyways... can they be beat by Any alliance? Yes. Could they have been beaten by any alliance they faced? Yes. Were they beaten? No.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Tim Delles

With John, Paul, and Karthik (the Big 3 that come to mind... i know there are plenty of amazing scouts behind each one) on the same team, they could make cardboard boxes win matches... its just what they do...

I think Mr. Derek Bessette plays a part in this as well, if I'm not mistaken.