HDPE or ICE FLOOR

[gorrilla]

conveyor belts for traction,

luckily we are only miles from g&t conveyor systems (they make airline baggage handeling things)

[Pat McCarthy]

We certainly know the idea has been floating around in the GDC's heads for a few years:


http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/22422

[Cory]

Originally Posted by gorrilla

conveyor belts for traction,

luckily we are only miles from g&t conveyor systems (they make airline baggage handeling things)

Like I said earlier, surface area doesn't matter.

HDPE and ice are as close as possible to an "ideal" surface from a physics standpoint. The reason surface area might matter on carpet is because the tread can interlock with the carpet.

On ice or HDPE the surface is totally slick, so there is no possible way for the tread to interlock with the HDPE, and thus surface area does not matter, only coefficient of friction and normal force.

[Pokemonking]

Hdpe , they gave you wheels to start with

[NickE]

Originally Posted by samir13k

Broomball... Like Curling?

Except played with a ball instead of a stone?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by samir13k

Broomball... Like Curling?

More like hockey played with brooms and a nice big ball (say, a little smaller than a playground ball). Oh, and you don't wear ice skates. The groups I've played with used street shoes. Evidently, that isn't the only way to do it.

[billbo911]

Originally Posted by dtengineering

So although my fellow Canadians may strip me of my citizenship for letting out this little piece of information, nothing grips ice quite like broomball shoes.
.....Now someone just needs to wrap them around a set of AM or IFI traction wheels and the ice races are on!

Oh man, talk about putting images in my head!!

Most of all, I keep seeing Dave's "Boot-Drive" robot that keeps showing up in his game animations. Every year a drive train like that hit's our design considerations process. Every year we laugh, then move on to more serious concepts. Maybe this year we will consider it a bit more seriously. Hey, take a look at the new Vex leg wheels. It makes you really think

[DarkFlame145]

Originally Posted by rc_cola1323

I've been around for a while and I know quite a bit of FIRST history. I was wondering if this years game had a ice or HDPE floor. What wheels would you use: tread, wheel diameter and why? Also, would teams move away from omni's because too much traction wouldn't be that BIG of deal like the past couple years. Imput would be great.

Preseason Preparation, the game hints always make me curious.

gooey, pneumatic tires that are just about flat. Or maybe tank treads.

[AdamHeard]

I can only think of one recent year, 2003, where HDPE was a surface you HAD to interact with to be competitive, and even then, the most dominant team just used roughtop tread. 111 didn't win because they could push, they won becuase they employed a superior strategy for controlling the top; ramps and a crab drive.

Since most FIRST fields are mostly carpet, and if HDPE is used as a floor it will probably be minimal, I would suggest you really think twice before designing a base for HDPE. As, I imagine the base optimized for HDPE would not be optimized for carpet, and would require a good deal of new design and research. I believe this time, and possible weight/complexity, would be better spent on other aspects of your robot design.

Bah, what I'm really trying to say is, don't just look at a problem at face value and say, I'm going to solve you for what you appear to be at face value. In 2004, teams thought they had to climb onto the HDPE platforms to hang from the bar, some made radically complex drivetrains to achieve this. When I saw 60/67/254 hang from the ground (and 60/254 at AMAZING speed as they used their drive motors to power their winch) and completely ignore the platform, I was inspired. Not only did they not have to design any radical crazy drivetrain to climb onto the platform, allowing them to stick with a simple 6 wheel, they were able hang faster than anyone.

I highly doubt that, "Lets push", "No, lets push HARDER!", will ever be a good strategy in FIRST. You can't mention 71 in 2002 as a counterexample, as their extreme pushing ability was just one piece of the puzzle that made their robot dominant that year.

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

I highly doubt that, "Lets push", "No, lets push HARDER!", will ever be a good strategy in FIRST. You can't mention 71 in 2002 as a counterexample, as their extreme pushing ability was just one piece of the puzzle that made their robot dominant that year.

Adam,
I wholeheartedly agree with you except for one other variable. What if the game doesn't allow you to interact with anything but HDPE (or some other kind of slick surface) ?? The teams that have adapted to a different kind of surface and gone ahead to make a robot that thrives on a slick surface will most certainly have an advantage..

Natural selection right? Survival of the fittest...the teams that will thrive are the teams that will be able to adjust quickly to a change of environment..

Just my 2 cents.

-brando

[Akash Rastogi]

This is actually a serious question:

What do you guys think of teams drifting around on the field during a match?

Controlled drifts, of course.

[Elgin Clock]

Originally Posted by lilstogi11

This is actually a serious question:

What do you guys think of teams drifting around on the field during a match?

Controlled drifts, of course.

I'm thinking that if it's drifting on carpet, the carpet will bunch up even more on the ends of the field than it already does, but I would like to see that (drifting) happen on a game one of these years for low (height-wise) robots only - for tipping safety concerns of course.

[gorrilla]

Originally Posted by Elgin Clock

I'm thinking that if it's drifting on carpet, the carpet will bunch up even more on the ends of the field than it already does, but I would like to see that (drifting) happen on a game one of these years for low (height-wise) robots only - for tipping safety concerns of course.

it would be fun (to do and watch)

i saw teams do it this year.....

[Robert Cawthon]

How would you attach the (probably) required regulation bumpers on the hovercraft?

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by GBIT

The only downside to this design is trying to obtain enough lift and propulsion with the voltage put out by the batteries, but i agree if a team could pull it off it would be pretty cool...

Lift and propulsion is easy. Less than 1 PSID is needed between the underside of the robot and the topside. Propulsion is even easier once lift is attained as traction goes way down.

Originally Posted by Alex Dinsmoor

The hovercraft idea would be an amazing feat, but what is the durability of the skirt? I think we all know how much our robots get beat up in matches.

There are many excellent fabrics that (such as multi layered Kevlar) that would be very suitable and wear resistant. You'd need to design the cloth pattern for the skirt properly and you might want to weigh down the bottom to prevent the cloth from not unfurling properly.

Originally Posted by Robert Cawthon

How would you attach the (probably) required regulation bumpers on the hovercraft?

Attaching the bumpers is easy, the question would be if the bumpers must stay in the "bumper zone" during play. If so then they would have to either articulate or would have to be positioned so that your cushion height does not move them out of the "bumper zone". Gotta love engineering challanges