<G14> Shenanigans?

[Cyberphil]

What happens if by some random event, your opponent scores 0, because of penalties, or just robots not working. Than you are a hue dis advantage in the next match.

[Team1710]

Originally Posted by Cyberphil

What happens if by some random event, your opponent scores 0, because of penalties, or just robots not working. Than you are a hue dis advantage in the next match.

I highly doubt that will happen but it will be interesting if it happens.

[GGCO]

Originally Posted by markulrich

FIRST is trying to give a "real-word" engineering experience, but this rule is just the opposite unless you're Microsoft trying to avoid Monopoly Laws. It should be modified or removed, teams learn more from failure than success, having the other team actually trying to bring your score up would just be humiliating. This is another example making the game too much about strategy.

Either putting a cap before the rule went into effect as mentioned above and/or comparing the unpenalized score of both alliances would be a good compromise.

Overall I love this year's game!

I couldn't have said it better. It sounds like socialism to me...

Anyways, what is the purpose of this rule? Not to make some rookie teams feel bad? It makes no sense to me. The really good alliances are going to win because they are superior, even without the supercell! The really bad alliances are going to lose because they are inferior, even with the supercells. The people who get the short end of the stick are the medium skilled alliances. If they get on a good alliance and shut the other alliance out they get gypped in their next round! If anything, it should be implemented during the final rounds. Even then I don't like it.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by GGCO

If they get on a good alliance and shut the other alliance out...

...then they have made a mistake. Their alliance should have employed a different strategy and not shut the other alliance out.

As with last years <G22> ("If you don't want to be penalized, don't break it!"), the proper response to <G14> this year seems obvious to me. If you don't want to start the next match missing a bonus option, pay attention to the score and don't win by a factor of two or more.

[ThunderKate]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

...then they have made a mistake. Their alliance should have employed a different strategy and not shut the other alliance out.

As with last years <G22> ("If you don't want to be penalized, don't break it!"), the proper response to <G14> this year seems obvious to me. If you don't want to start the next match missing a bonus option, pay attention to the score and don't win by a factor of two or more.

<G14> states that the rule is only valid during a "non-surrogate MATCH". We interpreted this as any elimination match.

And there is no way to pay attention to the score. This years scoring will not be like last years where there was live scoring. So one must guess the score.

[ExarKun666]

Originally Posted by ThunderKate

<G14> states that the rule is only valid during a "non-surrogate MATCH". We interpreted this as any elimination match.

And there is no way to pay attention to the score. This years scoring will not be like last years where there was live scoring. So one must guess the score.

Not entirely, the balls in the basket will add up to your raw score, but I can see where penalties will be hard to figure out.

[Greg Marra]

Originally Posted by ThunderKate

And there is no way to pay attention to the score. This years scoring will not be like last years where there was live scoring. So one must guess the score.

There appear to be handheld boxes for Refs to use to keep live scoring. If we presume there is no descoring, this will be completely accurate live scoring:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2242118...7611844292070/

[Alexa Stott]

Originally Posted by Greg Marra

There appear to be handheld boxes for Refs to use to keep live scoring. If we presume there is no descoring, this will be completely accurate live scoring:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2242118...7611844292070/

I think most of us who have ever attended week one regionals (when the field software always has a few kinks yet to be worked out--as in 2006, when the scoring couldn't keep up with rapid-fire autonomous) have learned the risks of trusting live scoring...

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Greg Marra

There appear to be handheld boxes for Refs to use to keep live scoring. If we presume there is no descoring, this will be completely accurate live scoring:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2242118...7611844292070/

There is a new position this year, the Official Scorer. Regional volunteer coordinators were told to get 4 referees, who were to be trained and certified. In addition there will be 6 scorers, who do not need pre-certification.

I'm guessing now - These scorers will attempt to provide real-time scoring using the shown handheld. Then at the end of the match they will come onto the field to confirm the ball counts, based on <T13>.

[Abra Cadabra IV]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

If you don't want to start the next match missing a bonus option, pay attention to the score and don't win by a factor of two or more.

I dunno about that... it's pretty hard to keep track of how many balls are in six different bins moving randomly around the field. Even if you could, I can see teams purposely keeping their own score low until the very end of the game, which forces the opposing alliance (if they're keeping track of score) to keep their total low enough that a surprise Super Cell or a mass dumping of moon rocks could pull the losing alliance ahead in the final seconds of a match. Personally, I wouldn't risk it.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and there's still penalties to take into account. One overenthusiastic payload specialist throwing a Super Cell in early could bring the match score from, say, 6-10 to 6-0. Again, not something most teams want to risk.

[ExarKun666]

Originally Posted by Abra Cadabra IV

I dunno about that... it's pretty hard to keep track of how many balls are in six different bins moving randomly around the field. Even if you could, I can see teams purposely keeping their own score low until the very end of the game, which forces the opposing alliance (if they're keeping track of score) to keep their total low enough that a surprise Super Cell or a mass dumping of moon rocks could pull the losing alliance ahead in the final seconds of a match. Personally, I wouldn't risk it.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and there's still penalties to take into account. One overenthusiastic payload specialist throwing a Super Cell in early could bring the match score from, say, 6-10 to 6-0. Again, not something most teams want to risk.

But like you said for the opposing team to keep track of the opponent's carts' and how many balls they have, and how many pts the other team has will be extremely difficult, not to mention penalties, sure you can attempt to low score it, but then it would be hard to figure out in your head how many pts you need to overtake them, penalties included, and personally I don't think a driver will concern themselves with such things, it's not a huge risk basically is what I'm saying.

[johnr]

I still don't get it. See if you can follow this.
match 4--you win by huge amount.
match 12-- you had huge win earlier but your new partners lost hugely earlier.
why would your new partners be penalized.
I'm slow ,forgive me. The only way i see this working is if you stay with the same partners the entire comp.

[GGCO]

I don't get it either, John. Some say that it encourages more strategy, but since you don't know the score until after the match it is basically all guess work!

This rule is total "Lunacy"!

[ExarKun666]

Originally Posted by GGCO

I don't get it either, John. Some say that it encourages more strategy, but since you don't know the score until after the match it is basically all guess work!

This rule is total "Lunacy"!

My personal take on this, is the following, and you can disagree, that if you scored high, and another alliance team scored low, whomever is in the corner actually throwing the super cells will be penalized or not (ball wise depending on the team) and the other team on the side will have the same thing (either penalized or not ball wise, depending on the team)

[ATannahill]

If you look through some of the pictures either by TBA or another person, you can see their live scoring banner on a blue screen, it looks like it can hold live score. Not counting penalties of course.

direct link: http://www.flickr.com/photos/2242118...7611844292070/