Go to Post At this point (after shipping the robot), I'm really looking forward to doing laundry, eating a square meal, and getting to bed at a reasonable hour. - Emily Pease [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Competition > Rules/Strategy
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-01-2009, 22:33
gbrettmiller's Avatar
gbrettmiller gbrettmiller is offline
Registered User
AKA: Brett
FRC #2893 (The Robohobos)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 53
gbrettmiller is on a distinguished road
Send a message via Yahoo to gbrettmiller
Question Ranking Score strategy

This is my first year, so I'm not sure how scoring/ranking has worked in the past, but this caught my eye as a bit unusual:

9.3.5 All teams on the winning ALLIANCE will receive ... ranking points equal to the un-penalized score ... of the losing ALLIANCE. All teams on the losing ALLIANCE will receive ... ranking points equal to their final score.

Which is clarified a bit in the note to 9.3.8:

Note: because your ranking score is derived directly from the MATCH scores of your opponent ALLIANCES, it is in your interest that both your ALLIANCE and the ALLIANCES you "defeat" obtain a high score. The most valuable "WIN" results from a close, high-score MATCH.

BUT...the team seeding is based primarily on the qualification score, which is based on wins (2 points), losses (0 points), or ties (1 point). So it makes sense (obviously) to go for the win.

I guess the question is "how do you incorporate the need for your opponent to have a high score, but not too high, into a strategy based on winning the match?"
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-01-2009, 22:38
Swerting's Avatar
Swerting Swerting is offline
King of the Geats
FRC #1523 (MARS)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14
Swerting is on a distinguished road
Re: Ranking Score strategy

This is only a rough thought, but I would scout out all the teams, and when paired with a roughly equal, in terms of ability, team, go for a close win, and for those tough matches, just go full out trying to win.

P.S. for the easier teams (which I doubt there will be since everyone is new to this floor) I would try to get a close win.

Like I said, a rough idea.
__________________
Six weeks is plenty of time to design and build a robot.
What do you mean that includes testing it?!?

I will forever see the first logo in my sleep.
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-01-2009, 22:51
Ironstorm's Avatar
Ironstorm Ironstorm is offline
Registered User
AKA: Sean
FRC #2729 (The STORM)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Mount Laurel
Posts: 9
Ironstorm will become famous soon enoughIronstorm will become famous soon enough
Re: Ranking Score strategy

In the only time I have seen a strategy work with this rule was during Aim High whena team went onto the opposite ramps. For this game though the only thing that comes to mind is throwing rocks into your own basket
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-01-2009, 22:55
EricH's Avatar
EricH EricH is offline
New year, new team
FRC #1197 (Torbots)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: SoCal
Posts: 19,726
EricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ranking Score strategy

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbrettmiller View Post
This is my first year, so I'm not sure how scoring/ranking has worked in the past, but this caught my eye as a bit unusual:

9.3.5 All teams on the winning ALLIANCE will receive ... ranking points equal to the un-penalized score ... of the losing ALLIANCE. All teams on the losing ALLIANCE will receive ... ranking points equal to their final score.

Which is clarified a bit in the note to 9.3.8:

Note: because your ranking score is derived directly from the MATCH scores of your opponent ALLIANCES, it is in your interest that both your ALLIANCE and the ALLIANCES you "defeat" obtain a high score. The most valuable "WIN" results from a close, high-score MATCH.

BUT...the team seeding is based primarily on the qualification score, which is based on wins (2 points), losses (0 points), or ties (1 point). So it makes sense (obviously) to go for the win.

I guess the question is "how do you incorporate the need for your opponent to have a high score, but not too high, into a strategy based on winning the match?"
Scoring and ranking this year is identical to past years.

You can, if you so desire, allow your opponents to score, or score for them. You do run a risk, however. Penalties. Yes, those little ten-point (or 20-point) penalties can ruin a close match.
__________________
Past teams:
2003-2007: FRC0330 BeachBots
2008: FRC1135 Shmoebotics
2012: FRC4046 Schroedinger's Dragons

"Rockets are tricky..."--Elon Musk

  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-01-2009, 23:03
Tom I's Avatar
Tom I Tom I is offline
Slightly Crazy... slightly
AKA: Tom Indelicato
FRC #0811 (The Cardinals)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 171
Tom I is a splendid one to beholdTom I is a splendid one to beholdTom I is a splendid one to beholdTom I is a splendid one to beholdTom I is a splendid one to beholdTom I is a splendid one to beholdTom I is a splendid one to behold
Re: Ranking Score strategy

Throwing moon rocks into our own basket has been brought up as an option for increasing your ranking score in my team's discussions. In addition to risking losing it because of penalties, its could prove to be a difficult thing to explain to your alliance partners!
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-01-2009, 00:00
~Mike()'s Avatar
~Mike() ~Mike() is offline
Mechanical
FRC #0131 (CHAOS)
Team Role: Driver
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: NH
Posts: 14
~Mike() is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Ranking Score strategy

My team discussed throwing rocks into our basket also.
An interesting scenario that could happen at the contest would be if
Your alliance is winning by a significant amount that all of the teams on your alliance all of sudden start throwing rocks in their baskets
And they throw too many.
Communication to the other teams is important because if evryone thinks the same thing at once and nobody looks at what their alliance partners are doing
Than an easy win could easily turn around into a loss.
Plus as forementioned there is the risk of unnoticed penalties.
__________________
"friends don't let friends do stupid things.... alone."

"'Why don't we all become programmers, and then just make our robot self-aware?!'
'Well then, what would make our robot do the challenge then?'"


  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-01-2009, 00:10
Enigma's puzzle's Avatar
Enigma's puzzle Enigma's puzzle is offline
Strategery
AKA: Matt Brechting
FRC #2075 (Enigma)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Sparta MI
Posts: 261
Enigma's puzzle is a splendid one to beholdEnigma's puzzle is a splendid one to beholdEnigma's puzzle is a splendid one to beholdEnigma's puzzle is a splendid one to beholdEnigma's puzzle is a splendid one to beholdEnigma's puzzle is a splendid one to beholdEnigma's puzzle is a splendid one to behold
Re: Ranking Score strategy

I would say that when you feel you can outscore your opponent, you don't play any sort of defense. and if you want to inflate scores, you must build an offensively minded robot.

HOWEVER, i am personally thinking, winning is my top priority, sometimes alliance captain isn't the best, it may make you seem unpickable by the other alliance captains.
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ranking score? jasper.s.jacobs General Forum 6 22-04-2008 08:53
Ranking Points IndySam Rules/Strategy 0 07-01-2008 11:13
Ranking D.Bear Championship Event 4 20-04-2007 16:17
YMTC: To Score Or Not To Score ... Natchez You Make The Call 9 24-01-2005 19:12
White Paper Discuss: Simple strategy/couter-strategy sheet CD47-Bot Extra Discussion 2 06-04-2004 22:37


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:18.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi