Defensive Strategies

[wizardofoz]

As long as you stay within the limits on dimensions, is there anything to keep the robot from reaching into the goal to get balls out?

I was thinking of a conveyor system with hooks that would reach into the goal.

[Racer26]

Given the 10" tongue on the trailer, and the requirement that the trailer hitch be on your outer edge, that means you have to build your robot in <28" so you can have 10" of reach on some manipulator. Realistically, your drivebase has to be quite short, and given the size of the controls etc, that wont be easy, never mind that such a manipulator would throw your CG way out to lunch.

The way I see it, no, theres nothing stopping you, aside from the logistics of doing it and staying inside the 28x38x60 box.

[R3V34L]

If there are more balls in the trailer, less can be put in. If you remove balls, you have to balance that with the possibility that you can now have more points scored against you.

I would personally say that the fact that a "moon rock" is put in at the beginning is a great advantage for the end of the match when there is less room for a "super cell".

Edit: Removed my misinterpretation of <G07> descored balls not being counted.

[Petey]

The best defensive strategy I've seen thus far is a goaltending bot that prevents the balls from being scored at all.

[Tetraman]

The best defense is constant motion

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by Petey

The best defensive strategy I've seen thus far is a goaltending bot that prevents the balls from being scored at all.

I'd be interested to know how this might work, given that we are unable to extend out past the 28"x38"60" boundary this year... How can you tend a goal if you can't extend above or over it?

Patrick

[Racer26]

I'm with IndySam, please quote such a rule. I have read the manual many times and seen no such indication that descoring by any means other than tipping is invalid.

There have been CAD drawings on another thread showing a bot with a very short drivebase that COULD cover ~50% of the trailer, IF a U shaped robot is allowed to have its trailer hitch on the inside of the U (unlikely). Possibly you could add a big CIM driven fan, to help blow balls away from the remaining 50% of the goal, but I think this strategy will be effectively outlawed anyway.

EDIT: <G07> makes no mention of descoring not counting, only that tipping your own, or an alliance partners trailer (or even the other alliances, really) will not descore the balls already in it. I imagine this is because the GDC expects there will be some accidental trailer tipping, via high speed collisions due to the low mu.

[BigWhiteYeti]

If at the end of the game you really needed to prevent opponent scoring, just do some donuts on the slippery floor. A spinning robot is going to be almost impossible to score on.

[Petey]

Originally Posted by pfreivald

I'd be interested to know how this might work, given that we are unable to extend out past the 28"x38"60" boundary this year... How can you tend a goal if you can't extend above or over it?

Patrick

Who says you have to get outside the footprint to extend over it?

[IndySam]

Originally Posted by R3V34L

Keep in mind that Balls removed from your trailer still count against you, and if there are more balls in the trailer, less can be put in. If you remove balls, you have to balance that with the possibility that you can now have more points scored against you.

I would personally say that the fact that a "moon rock" is put in at the beginning is a great advantage for the end of the match when there is less room for a "super cell".

please quote the rule where this came from?

[Tetraman]

Originally Posted by IndySam

please quote the rule where this came from?

It's not written in the rule book...but it is assumed though different rules.

<G07> B. If a TRAILER tips over, the points SCORED for that TRAILER at the time it was tipped will be preserved for the remainder of the MATCH.

[Stephen Kowski]

Originally Posted by Tetraman

It's not written in the rule book...but it is assumed though different rules.

<G07> B. If a TRAILER tips over, the points SCORED for that TRAILER at the time it was tipped will be preserved for the remainder of the MATCH.

....and if you don't tip it over and just remove balls?

[Racer26]

By the same token, whats to stop you from building a <28x38x60 robot, and building a descoring mech on it and descore from your alliance partners trailers?

[StevenB]

Originally Posted by 1075guy

I'm with IndySam, please quote such a rule. I have read the manual many times and seen no such indication that descoring by any means other than tipping is invalid.

Same here. The real question is whether this would be considered illegal "outside the bumper zone contact". That's where I see the GDC most likely to rule it out, particularly using <G32> parts E and F.
On the other hand:

Originally Posted by Game Manual, Section 6.1

The ARENA includes all elements of the game infrastructure that are required to play Lunacy: the CRATER, the ALLIANCE BASES, the OUTPOSTS, the FUELING STATIONS, the PAYLOAD TRAILERS...

Originally Posted by Game Manual, Section 7.3.5.2, <G29>

Arena Interaction –ROBOTS may push or react against any elements of the ARENA, provided there is no damage or disruption of the ARENA elements. With the exception of a ROBOT towing a TRAILER, ROBOTS may not grab, grasp, grapple, or attach to any ARENA structure.

[Racer26]

IMO, <G29> doesn't say anything about this. You're not grabbing, grasping, or grappling the TRAILER (an ARENA element), you're reaching into it, which is not mentioned, and therefore just fine.

EDIT: also, the game pieces themselves are not considered ARENA elements, and therefore grabbing, grasping, or grappling those is just fine.