Go to Post I will be happy if these die a quick and silent death. - Cory [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Competition > Rules/Strategy
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-01-2009, 10:17
Petey's Avatar
Petey Petey is offline
Strategy & Gaming
AKA: Chris Peterson
None #1073 (Team F.O.R.C.E.)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Hollis-Brookline, NH
Posts: 644
Petey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond repute
Two questions about keeping it in the footprint

I'm wondering what thoughts people may have on these two rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manual
<R16> Once the MATCH has started, the ROBOT may assume a PLAYING CONFIGURATION that is different from the STARTING CONFIGURATION. The ROBOT must be designed such that the PLAYING CONFIGURATION of the ROBOT shall not exceed the dimensions specified in Rule <R11>.
It is clear that a robot must be within the 28x38x60 footprint when it is placed on the field (SC). It also must be within that footprint once it has assumed the PC.

Is it allowed to exceed the footprint in the process of assuming the PC?

What I'm imagining is a robot that begins with a component hanging parallel to the body of the robot in SC. In PC, that component rests perpendicular to the body of the robot. In both SC and PC, the component is within the footprint, but in order to get from SC to PC it (momentarily) must swing outside the footprint.

Is this allowed? Or are we to read this rule as simply allowing multiple playing configurations for the robot without any sort of special allowance for the space spent changing from SC to PC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manual
some stuff about bumper zones
I'm reading a lot of conflicting quotes in this forum about bumper zones. I think the rules may be in tension.

My reading of the rulebook supports the conclusion that a robot may never extend outside the 28x38x60 footprint, which may (but not must) be the same as its bumper zone.

As a way of understanding this, you could have a 28x28 robot that reached out to 36 inches, because that would be within the footprint, even though it extended beyond the bumper zones.
__________________

Bio:
Team 1073 alumnus, now Admissions Officer at MIT.

Thanks to all those who have helped me through FIRST over the years.

Last edited by Petey : 05-01-2009 at 10:42.
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-01-2009, 10:37
Racer26 Racer26 is offline
Registered User
no team
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Beaverton, ON
Posts: 2,229
Racer26 has a reputation beyond reputeRacer26 has a reputation beyond reputeRacer26 has a reputation beyond reputeRacer26 has a reputation beyond reputeRacer26 has a reputation beyond reputeRacer26 has a reputation beyond reputeRacer26 has a reputation beyond reputeRacer26 has a reputation beyond reputeRacer26 has a reputation beyond reputeRacer26 has a reputation beyond reputeRacer26 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Two questions about keeping it in the footprint

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petey View Post
As a way of understanding this, you could have a 30x30 robot that reached out to 36 inches, because that would be within the footprint, even though it extended beyond the bumper zones.
You definitely COULD NOT have a 30x30 robot (it wouldn't fit in the 28" dimension).

Also, it must not ever extend outside of the 28x38x60 box, as at any time during the MATCH, the ROBOT is decidedly in some PLAYING CONFIGURATION. A ROBOT can have many PLAYING CONFIGURATIONs, but no one of them can extend beyond the 28x38x60 boundary. Essentially, if you want an arm type manipulator, you need to build your STARTING CONFIGURATION (and by extension, your drive base) to be substantially less than 28x38x60.
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-01-2009, 10:41
Petey's Avatar
Petey Petey is offline
Strategy &amp; Gaming
AKA: Chris Peterson
None #1073 (Team F.O.R.C.E.)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Hollis-Brookline, NH
Posts: 644
Petey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Two questions about keeping it in the footprint

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1075guy View Post
You definitely COULD NOT have a 30x30 robot (it wouldn't fit in the 28" dimension).
doh

edited
Quote:
Also, it must not ever extend outside of the 28x38x60 box, as at any time during the MATCH, the ROBOT is decidedly in some PLAYING CONFIGURATION. A ROBOT can have many PLAYING CONFIGURATIONs, but no one of them can extend beyond the 28x38x60 boundary.
Yeah i figured that was the reading but I wasn't sure because of the use of "assume" which implies a transitive state that exists between SC and PC.
__________________

Bio:
Team 1073 alumnus, now Admissions Officer at MIT.

Thanks to all those who have helped me through FIRST over the years.
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-01-2009, 10:46
Racer26 Racer26 is offline
Registered User
no team
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Beaverton, ON
Posts: 2,229
Racer26 has a reputation beyond reputeRacer26 has a reputation beyond reputeRacer26 has a reputation beyond reputeRacer26 has a reputation beyond reputeRacer26 has a reputation beyond reputeRacer26 has a reputation beyond reputeRacer26 has a reputation beyond reputeRacer26 has a reputation beyond reputeRacer26 has a reputation beyond reputeRacer26 has a reputation beyond reputeRacer26 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Two questions about keeping it in the footprint

I know what you're saying about the wording implying some sort of transitive state, but as I said in a different thread yesterday, the GDC typically answers Q&A questions inline with the INTENT of the rule, and the INTENT of this one was to restrict us to the 28x38x60 box.
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-01-2009, 10:55
Rosiebotboss's Avatar
Rosiebotboss Rosiebotboss is offline
2015-16 Divisional LRI - Archimedes
AKA: Dana P. Henry
FRC #0839 (Rosie Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Agawam, MA
Posts: 853
Rosiebotboss has a reputation beyond reputeRosiebotboss has a reputation beyond reputeRosiebotboss has a reputation beyond reputeRosiebotboss has a reputation beyond reputeRosiebotboss has a reputation beyond reputeRosiebotboss has a reputation beyond reputeRosiebotboss has a reputation beyond reputeRosiebotboss has a reputation beyond reputeRosiebotboss has a reputation beyond reputeRosiebotboss has a reputation beyond reputeRosiebotboss has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Rosiebotboss
Re: Two questions about keeping it in the footprint

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1075guy View Post
I know what you're saying about the wording implying some sort of transitive state, but as I said in a different thread yesterday, the GDC typically answers Q&A questions inline with the INTENT of the rule, and the INTENT of this one was to restrict us to the 28x38x60 box.
With all due respect, but are you on the GDC?

Petey, I would ask it on the Q & A Forum.
__________________
Co-Founder/Mentor FRC Team 839 / JrFLL Team 137/Rosie Robotics/Agawam HS
Winner NEF District WPI 2016
Regional CA-08 Boston, 12 WPI, Eng'g Excellence, 12-15 UL Safety, 15 Motorola Quality
KPCB Entrepreneurship 04, 05, 06, 07, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15, 16
Rookie All Star and Top Rookie Seed 2002
Paul Harris Fellow, CMP Inspector 05-16, Head LRI NE FIRST JTB 1944-2008 "What did you do with your dash?"
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-01-2009, 11:13
Petey's Avatar
Petey Petey is offline
Strategy &amp; Gaming
AKA: Chris Peterson
None #1073 (Team F.O.R.C.E.)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Hollis-Brookline, NH
Posts: 644
Petey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Two questions about keeping it in the footprint

1075 guy is probably right, but I may ask this in Q&A.

And I assume I'm right w/r/t the second question about bumper zones and footprints correct?
__________________

Bio:
Team 1073 alumnus, now Admissions Officer at MIT.

Thanks to all those who have helped me through FIRST over the years.
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-01-2009, 13:04
BRAVESaj25bd8 BRAVESaj25bd8 is offline
Bobby D
AKA: Bobby DeFelice
FRC #0250 (Dynamos)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Colonie, NY USA
Posts: 121
BRAVESaj25bd8 has a brilliant futureBRAVESaj25bd8 has a brilliant futureBRAVESaj25bd8 has a brilliant futureBRAVESaj25bd8 has a brilliant futureBRAVESaj25bd8 has a brilliant futureBRAVESaj25bd8 has a brilliant futureBRAVESaj25bd8 has a brilliant futureBRAVESaj25bd8 has a brilliant futureBRAVESaj25bd8 has a brilliant futureBRAVESaj25bd8 has a brilliant futureBRAVESaj25bd8 has a brilliant future
Re: Two questions about keeping it in the footprint

R11 states
Quote:
At the start of, and during, the MATCH the ROBOT shall fit within the dimensions listed
below
It then goes on to say the following dimensions:
Maximum Width: 28 inches
Maximum Depth: 38 inches
Maximum Height: 60 inches
Maximum Weight: 120 pounds

While width and depth are basically interchangeable based on how one views the robot, height is referencing the distance from the bottom of the robot to the top of it with a height of zero being at the surface which contacts the ground. Therefore, "flop bots" are illegal if they plan to tip over from a height of 60 inches and then afterwards have a width or depth of that dimension. Along with that, it seems pretty clear that you cannot build a robot with a 38 inch height so your 60 inch dimension could be saved to extend an arm or something. The rule seems pretty clear to me that your switch from starting configuration to playing configuration would violate the rule because the change would occur during the match.
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-01-2009, 13:11
Petey's Avatar
Petey Petey is offline
Strategy &amp; Gaming
AKA: Chris Peterson
None #1073 (Team F.O.R.C.E.)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Hollis-Brookline, NH
Posts: 644
Petey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond reputePetey has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Two questions about keeping it in the footprint

Thanks! "During" seems to clear up my question about the transition betwen SC and PC.
__________________

Bio:
Team 1073 alumnus, now Admissions Officer at MIT.

Thanks to all those who have helped me through FIRST over the years.
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Questions about the engines. yuval_bertocchi Rules/Strategy 1 24-01-2007 11:42
Two questions about webdesign Adam Y. Website Design/Showcase 7 23-05-2005 22:13
Some questions about the Toronto regional DivideByZero Regional Competitions 4 20-03-2005 19:03
questions about the servos Alex Golec Motors 1 23-01-2005 20:05


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:18.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi