No-show teams and trailers

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by martin417

I still haven't seen a response. I would think this would be an easy answer. Why no response? I don't think anyone would plan a strategy based on this, but I would like to know the answer...

This post from another thread probably answers this question:

Originally Posted by ebarker

To put Eric's comments into a nutshell -

a) a trailer is field equipment

b) thou shalt not damage field equipment

c) it has been so since the beginning of time.

I can confidently say the GDC is aware of the issue - at the least, Dave wouldn't have missed these threads, and people have posted to Q&A. Likely they are working on a solution that will allow the non-roboted trailer to be on the field but not present a danger to itself or to the other robots.

[JesseK]

Here's an off-the-wall solution....

How about making a queue such as what was seen for practice matches in 2008. If a robot doesn't show up, then the first team in the queue is put in their place. If that team is busy, on the field already, or doesn't want to come for whatever reason, simply put them at the back of the queue. The match couldn't count for the bot that subs in, win or lose The match would count against the team (and only that team) that didn't show up -- i.e. a loss, regardless of whether the alliance won or not. This would keep the alliance from being hurt while also penalizing the team that didn't show up.

The only way to abuse this is to sacrifice your team for the good of another team if the sub is a dominant bot or a friend of your opponents. There are some sketchy scenarios that could be derived from doing this on purpose, so we'd have to rely on good faith (or disallow the top N-ranked robots from sub'ing in) for it to work.

To pull this off, the GDC would have to re-write some code for the scoring/ranking system -- so maybe it's feasible, maybe not.

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by Rick Wagner

I want to verify I haven't missed something, but after the third update, there still seems to be no Q&A response or rules update that addresses this issue. The trailer tongue for a no-show robot will gouge the regolith when it gets shoved out of range of an opposing PS by an alliance partner. The trailer will also rest at a non-vertical angle, and might be tipped over backward fairly easily.

I would have posted my own Q&A question on this, but someone earlier in the thread said he would ask.

If you look at FIRST's field drawings the trailer hitch is pretty different than the one in the team drawings. The end of the rod is a hemisphere, so I highly doubt it will scratch the regolith. (Sorry, I can't remember the exact drawing number! It's in there though!)

[Rick Wagner]

It will be interesting to see if the answer comes tomorrow on Q&A. Even if the tongue has no sharp edges, robots can run up on it or in a worst case scenario, the trailer gets tilted back for a second and a robot gets impaled on the tongue. The suggestion above, to remove the tongue for safety, seems to me to be workable. Removing the entire trailer, as has been pointed out, is apparently unworkable from a game dynamics viewpoint.

Perhaps the best solution, ultimately, will be to introduce a special tongueless trailer with a third wheel (no caster necessary, I think), just for the case of no-show robots. That means building extra trailers or modifying existing ones in realtime during the competitions.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Rick Wagner

It will be interesting to see if the answer comes tomorrow on Q&A. Even if the tongue has no sharp edges, robots can run up on it or in a worst case scenario, the trailer gets tilted back for a second and a robot gets impaled on the tongue. The suggestion above, to remove the tongue for safety, seems to me to be workable. Removing the entire trailer, as has been pointed out, is apparently unworkable from a game dynamics viewpoint.

I suspect that we will just see surrogate robots playing for any robot that does not show.

[Rick Wagner]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

I suspect that we will just see surrogate robots playing for any robot that does not show.

I wonder if the surrogate robots will have autonomous modes and what they will be.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Rick Wagner

I wonder if the surrogate robots will have autonomous modes and what they will be.

Surrogates are usually nothing more then a stand in team (without the penalty issue of <G14>)

[Rick Wagner]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

Surrogates are usually nothing more then a stand in team (without the penalty issue of <G14>)

That could work. Would the no-show team still play their payload specialist? I suppose so.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Rick Wagner

That could work. Would the no-show team still play their payload specialist? I suppose so.

Yup. Full team. Just would not get the ranking points or W/L record.

[EricH]

I don't know about having surrogate teams (outside of the normal ones). It's kind of like, "Hey could you guys fill in for team XXXX right away?" You're really going to irritate some people.

I also don't see this being too much of an issue. 90% of matches have two full alliances. The other 10% are mainly due to broken robots. Stick the robot onto the field, get it away from its launch pad, and disable it or drive around doing nothing.