So, do we rely on our payload specialist?

[PhilBot]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

Read your team updates.

I'm not a Nube that doesn't read the rules or updates. But I can miss things.

If you want to take pleasure in "outing" me, please have the courtesy to be specific. Update?... Section?...

Phil.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by PhilBot

I'm not a Nube that doesn't read the rules or updates. But I can miss things.

If you want to take pleasure in "outing" me, please have the courtesy to be specific. Update?... Section?...

Phil.

Originally Posted by Team update #3 Section <G20> part C

C. MOON ROCKS can be recycled to the PAYLOAD SPECIALISTS by passing
them over/through the AIRLOCK and through the FUELING PORT in the Alliance
Station Wall, or by passing them through the port in the OUTPOST shield.
MOON ROCKS can not be recycled to the PAYLOAD SPECIALISTS via any
other paths (e.g. over the OUTPOST shield or Alliance Station Wall). A violation
will cause a PENALTY to be assigned.

I did not intend on 'outing' you, and I apologize if it seemed that way.

[PhilBot]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

I did not intend on 'outing' you, and I apologize if it seemed that way.

Thanks for the specifics.
I did indeed miss that change when reading the update. When I reviewed the rules *before* posting I must have had an outdated copy.

My "outing" comment was based on my dislike of posts that just make statements that "imply" the writer knows more than the original poster, without actually helping the original poster to obtain that knowledge.

We all know that there are LOTS of rules and Q&A's and Updates.
Many people (like me) post to find out if we've missed something.
(I already spend at least two hours a day keeping up on FTC, FRC & FLL)

So being told to "read the rules" is pretty annoying.

Sorry if I over-reacted.
Bygones ?

Phil.

[WhiteShadow1474]

Well i cannot say that our team focuses on the human player element but we did incorporate our design to be able to interacte with the human players. Everything to get that extra edge right?

[tonsoffun2325]

as a payload specialist for team 1742. the payload specialist is a very important person. they are worth 60 points in the game. we used them and we are now on our way to atlanta

[Paul Copioli]

Let me just simply say that if you saw the Midwest regional, our alliance utilized the payload specialist to the fullest. We had an alliance that, in my 9 years of elimination round experience, should not have made it out of the QF. However, we found some way to make even the mighty 111 / 1625 combo shake in their boots and had them on their heels. A money payload specialist, if incorporated into the correct strategy, can change the game in less than 3 seconds and cut the playing field down to 1/2 the size.

This strategy was witnessed by few and not discussed much, but if we would have won the regional many more would be talking about it today.

The payload specialist is the mighty equalizer in this game and any alliance has a chance this year with the right payload specialists.

More than any other year, average robots with great execution of a great strategy can neutralize a great robot with a good strategy.

What we were able to pull off at Midwest has opened my eyes to the possibilities in this year's game.

[mathking]

I have to agree with Paul. At Buckeye there were a number of teams with who had robots that could not gather balls, but they drove their robot well and had good human players. One of them (2387) was ranked in the top 8 most of the way and advanced into the elimination rounds. 2941 had a really nicely balanced, maneuverable machine and played great offensive-defensive driving, pinning other robots and impeding their ball collection. We won a match with them when they kept a robot down in our PS's corner for about 13 or 14 shots. The good human players were able to score at least as much as the good robots. It really made things balanced this year. The great robots couldn't just roll over opponents with technical superiority. Without a good strategy and good human player they were vulnerable to defeat.

The strategy was really important. We noticed this by analyzing our mistakes in the early rounds. There were plenty of matches in which our only goal with the robot was to keep moving and gobble up balls to keep them from opponents. You really have to pay attention to not getting stuck in bad spots.

[BPetry234]

To say that you need to rely on any aspect of your drive team, including hp, is most likely a bad idea. Sickness and injury are always out there and if that happens, I really hope that doesn't happen to any team.

The best thing is to probably have a balanced team. A good robot with a good hp stands a chance to beat a great robot with a poor hp (and reverse).

That being said, a lot of second round teams might be drafted for their hp. Any thing that makes you competitive, draftable, or draft worthy is something you explote all the time.

[MrForbes]

Originally Posted by Team2441

Yeah you're right...it's only our second year so our robot might be influenced a little too much by human limitations...I know I sound pesimistic but we're still fighting over designs.

It's getting pretty late in the design phase of the schedule...maybe you should see if you can just pick whatever design you think you can build in the remaining time? Having some type of robot scoring is a lot better than none, even if it's not the best one possible.

[Rich Kressly]

Anyone wary of what a human player might be able to do should take a long look at video from 2002. While a mechanism that can "shoot" or dump lots of balls can score more than one human can in a given period of time, there were more than a few instances in 02 where a well trained human player (now known as payload specialist) could sway the outcome of a match. Now take into consideration that your alliance has three such folks (in 2002 there were only two) AND they are positioned at both ends and one side of the field (where the two were at one end in 2002).

Our team is still working on manipulator designs for scoring in trailers, but we're taking our payload specialist's role very seriously. We quickly identified one specialist very early who will be with us at our first event and she's been charged with shooting (I refuse to use the word "throwing" because that implies way too much luck and not enough skill) at least 100 balls per day between now and the week one regional. We're also having several other students work on shooting as well and we'll identify one or two more students who will help fulfill the role for our team.

As others have said here, you also need to seriously weigh the time you have left a prioritize what you can get done. Playing only part of the game is fine, you have two alliance partners every match. In fact, playing "part" of the game very, very well can sometimes be more effective than trying to "do it all" and coming up mediocre. Our team has experienced this first hand in several ways during our brief history. Everyone's time and resources are different and maximizing that time and those resources by "fitting" them with a design that meets your team's individual makeup to me, is essential. I will always, always marvel at what the 111's and 71's and even my old team 103, can do. I use their info and people as resources often and they continue to inspire me. However, I'm also under no illusion that we can do what they do the way they do it.

Food for thought - the humans (during build AND at competition) should never be overlooked. They, their time, and their skills and abilities need to be foremost in your mind when making design decisions IMHO.

Good luck and have fun!

[OZ_341]

In 2004 we won an offseason championship in the final seconds of game 3 because our human player "nailed" eight shots in row with the purple balls. She was just an amazing shot.

In 2006 the human player was a definite part of our strategy and we were in the top 8 all season.

Despite the fact that FIRST teams all build incredible robots, human beings are just still so much more capable. They have much more refined "feedback systems", which can adjust to an infinite number of situations.

Do not underestimate the human players. Especially given this year's game format.

[fabalafae]

We're using the human player as a main part of our strategy. We're not completely relying on the human player, but we plan to train players and take advantage of human accuracy/ability.