**FIRST EMAIL**/Visit Bill's Blog - Important Shipping Reminder and Software Update

[Mark McLeod]

Greetings Teams:

Have you been reading Bill’s Blog? http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/ Go check it out!

Bill has posted a lot of information lately, including a reminder that if you choose, you may withhold up to 40 pounds of components when you pack up your robot (incidentally, the new control system fits nicely into the 40 pound limit and there’s no rule against continuing to program the system while you wait), the suggestion that you bring a laptop with the development environment loaded onto it to your Regional and the recommendation that you load the latest software updates on your cRIO before you get there.

Visit Bill’s blog for more details and look for the new software updates at www.usfirst.org/frccontrolsystem <http://www.usfirst.org/frccontrolsystem> <http://www.usfirst.org/frccontrolsystem> .

Go Teams!

[dtengineering]

This is a very valuable reminder.

I believe there was also a Q&A post concerning R35 and R36 (the withholding limit) that pointed out that since the cRio is a commercial off the shelf unit (when unplugged from all components on the robot) that it does not count towards the 40 pound limit. The same would apply to an unmodified toughbox, and presumably an unmodified CIM. The 40 pounds refers only to fabricated parts.

This is a major departure from the previous way of doing things, and, for those teams who optimize the opportunities presented by this rule, represents a real opportunity to advance both their robot and their student's opportunities to learn "hands on" the hardware.

So if something still needs work on your robot... don't panic... take careful measurements, photos, etc. and hold back the parts you need to get working. (For us it will be traction control...)

Jason

[Eric O]

Originally Posted by dtengineering

This is a very valuable reminder.

I believe there was also a Q&A post concerning R35 and R36 (the withholding limit) that pointed out that since the cRio is a commercial off the shelf unit (when unplugged from all components on the robot) that it does not count towards the 40 pound limit. The same would apply to an unmodified toughbox, and presumably an unmodified CIM. The 40 pounds refers only to fabricated parts.

This is a major departure from the previous way of doing things, and, for those teams who optimize the opportunities presented by this rule, represents a real opportunity to advance both their robot and their student's opportunities to learn "hands on" the hardware.

So if something still needs work on your robot... don't panic... take careful measurements, photos, etc. and hold back the parts you need to get working. (For us it will be traction control...)

Jason

Jason,

Can you find the Q&A that specifies whether the cRio is included or not. There are 4 posts in the "fabrication schedule" subforum, none of which states this. I am not saying you are incorrect; I just want to know where you are getting the information. I actually just posted a question in the Q&A to try to clarify what is counted in the 40lbs, but want to make sure some of those questions were not answered elsewhere. I am awaiting a response from the GDC on my specific questions.

Happy end of build season…..kind of.

-Eric

[Vikesrock]

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=11854

My interpretation is that anything you want to count as COTS and not as Withholding Allowance must be disassembled to basic COTS form and reassembled at the event. Meaning for a cRIO to go in as COTS it would have to come off of any mounting board (so the board can be part of what is weighed) and all of the modules would have to be removed.

[EricVanWyk]

Originally Posted by Vikesrock

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=11854

My interpretation is that anything you want to count as COTS and not as Withholding Allowance must be disassembled to basic COTS form and reassembled at the event. Meaning for a cRIO to go in as COTS it would have to come off of any mounting board (so the board can be part of what is weighed) and all of the modules would have to be removed.

I intend no offense*, but that sounds like a very lawyer-y interpretation. I'd double check with Q&A before going forward with it.

*That phrase is a pet pieve of mine, I am sorry to use it: "No offense" does not remove offense from the following statement.

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by EricVanWyk

I intend no offense*, but that sounds like a very lawyer-y interpretation. I'd double check with Q&A before going forward with it.

*That phrase is a pet pieve of mine, I am sorry to use it: "No offense" does not remove offense from the following statement.

No offense taken, the interpretation does sound very lawyer-y to me too, but it is what I get from this answer after looking at question 2 and question 3.

My team has our Withholding Allowance well below 40 lbs. without this "trick" so we're just going to be throwing the cRIO and other electronics on the scale with everything else (f they weight the allowance).

[petek]

Please keep in mind that (as far as I know) the regional volunteers who will be watching for violations of <R36> have not been informed of any exemptions for COTS except for the Drivers Station. I recommend that you make sure that your interpretation is okayed by FIRST via the Q&A if you expect to bring in 40 lbs of fabricated parts plus your cRIO. It would be a shame if you fell behind trying to iron this out at the event.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by EricVanWyk

I intend no offense*, but that sounds like a very lawyer-y interpretation. I'd double check with Q&A before going forward with it.

It actually follows quite logically from the Q&A linked to (unfortunately). Point 3 boils down to: every portion of the control system is COTS if it's in unassembled form, and so if you take the entire system apart (other than custom wire lengths), you could bring it in as COTS and therefore part of the COTS items. I'm not entirely sure that the GDC intended for this to be the correct interpretation, so it should be asked pretty darn soon...

Does a cRIO and the rest of the control system count as part of the Withholding Allowance if it is disassembled into basic components (i.e., modules, Jaguars, Spikes, Sidecars, Breakouts, etc.) and reassembled at the event, or does it count as COTS and therefore exempt from the 40# limit on the Withholding Allowance?

[petek]

Originally Posted by EricH

It actually follows quite logically from the Q&A linked to (unfortunately). Point 3 boils down to: every portion of the control system is COTS if it's in unassembled form, and so if you take the entire system apart (other than custom wire lengths), you could bring it in as COTS and therefore part of the COTS items. I'm not entirely sure that the GDC intended for this to be the correct interpretation, so it should be asked pretty darn soon...

Does a cRIO and the rest of the control system count as part of the Withholding Allowance if it is disassembled into basic components (i.e., modules, Jaguars, Spikes, Sidecars, Breakouts, etc.) and reassembled at the event, or does it count as COTS and therefore exempt from the 40# limit on the Withholding Allowance?

It was asked and answered and it looks to me like the cRIO could be counted separately from the 40 lbs allowed under <R36> if it is disassembled to the individual components as supplied by NI. That would mean that you would have to assemble, install and wire the cRIO and modules on your robot at the event.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by petek

It was asked and answered and it looks to me like the cRIO could be counted separately from the 40 lbs allowed under <R36> if it is disassembled to the individual components as supplied by NI. That would mean that you would have to assemble, install and wire the cRIO and modules on your robot at the event.

That's the one that provides the dilemma... the one I proposed would make sure that the GDC meant to give that effect.