Go to Post The only thing a team needs to survive is people who want it to survive. - Ryan Foley [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Electrical
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 18-02-2009, 11:56
DhavalVashi's Avatar
DhavalVashi DhavalVashi is offline
Registered User
FRC #1241 (Theory 6)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 9
DhavalVashi is an unknown quantity at this point
Blown up electrical board

We are having a problem with our control system. When we try to get feed from the camera, the robot goes into watchdog mode. this started happening 3-4 days ago. prior to that, everything was working perfectly. the camera would track and follow and shoot and all that. but now as soon as we enable the robot, it goes into watchdog mode because the camera does not get any information to send to the cRio. the camera light on the cRio is solid orange (even tho it should be flashing to show data transfer). then we called NI and they said we might have reset the password. so we did that and then we went to test it on our practice robot but the cRio does not turn on. when we remove the WAGO connector from the cRio side to measure voltage, we get 24.5V, but when we plug it back into the cRio, we get 3.27V. we tried it with many batteries. we tried using 3 different power distribution board. but no luck. So then we called NI again, and they said lots of teams have the same problem and that they will send us another cRio overnight. we are still waiting for the new one to arrive but would like your feed back on what might be wrong. we also tried using the old backup code from 2 weeks ago which we knew worked for sure!
we look forward to your opinion.
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 18-02-2009, 12:08
crake crake is offline
National Instruments
AKA: Chris Rake
no team (Athena)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 184
crake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Blown up electrical board

Quote:
Originally Posted by DhavalVashi View Post
So then we called NI again, and they said lots of teams have the same problem and that they will send us another cRio overnight. we are still waiting for the new one to arrive but would like your feed back on what might be wrong. we also tried using the old backup code from 2 weeks ago which we knew worked for sure! we look forward to your opinion.
Unfortunately you got some incorrect information as we have not seen other teams reporting the behavior you are seeing (24V drops to 3V when connected to cRIO). This appears to be a new and strange issue, so please send in your current controller ASAP so we can take a look.

+Chris
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 18-02-2009, 12:15
DhavalVashi's Avatar
DhavalVashi DhavalVashi is offline
Registered User
FRC #1241 (Theory 6)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 9
DhavalVashi is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Blown up electrical board

Thanks for the quick reply, and we are recieving a replacment cRio, but my question now is how do we send our damaged cRio in for inspection?
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 18-02-2009, 16:08
crake crake is offline
National Instruments
AKA: Chris Rake
no team (Athena)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 184
crake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Blown up electrical board

Quote:
Originally Posted by DhavalVashi View Post
Thanks for the quick reply, and we are recieving a replacment cRio, but my question now is how do we send our damaged cRio in for inspection?
Your contact should receive an email from NI with instructions once the replacement is on its way.
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 18-02-2009, 18:26
EricVanWyk EricVanWyk is offline
Registered User
no team
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,597
EricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to EricVanWyk
Re: Blown up electrical board

Please don't use such sensationalist headlines, you gave me half a heart attack.

When the cRIO supply is at 3V, what does the battery read as? Are any other systems still powered? What do the DSC power indication LEDs say?
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 18-02-2009, 18:44
Russ Beavis Russ Beavis is offline
Registered User
no team
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Manchester, NH - DEKA R&D Corp.
Posts: 341
Russ Beavis has a reputation beyond reputeRuss Beavis has a reputation beyond reputeRuss Beavis has a reputation beyond reputeRuss Beavis has a reputation beyond reputeRuss Beavis has a reputation beyond reputeRuss Beavis has a reputation beyond reputeRuss Beavis has a reputation beyond reputeRuss Beavis has a reputation beyond reputeRuss Beavis has a reputation beyond reputeRuss Beavis has a reputation beyond reputeRuss Beavis has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Blown up electrical board

As I described on this identical thread on the FIRST Control System forum, I'm suspicious about the isolation of your chassis. I wonder if you've got a live chassis (probably due to the camera's live chassis) and you're getting some tricky "ground loop-like" issues.

Please confirm that your chassis is isolated and that the cRIO's frame and camera's frame aren't "touching" something else.

Russ
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 18-02-2009, 19:21
DhavalVashi's Avatar
DhavalVashi DhavalVashi is offline
Registered User
FRC #1241 (Theory 6)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 9
DhavalVashi is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Blown up electrical board

when the cRio power was at 3V, the battery was at 13.05V or something...
our camera wasnt plugged in at that time so i dont think the camera isolation was the problem.
and we did this testing when the cRio was off the robot (since we had to ship it), and it was on a wooden table so i guess that eliminates that possibility also.

so we finally reset the password on the camera again today and the good news is, EVERYTHING WORKS AGAIN!!! (even the not working 3.0V cRio works)
we just left it in a drawer over night, and it fixed itself ...

my thinking is that we still send in our cRio to NI once we receive our replacement one just to make sure that this does not happen in competition again.

thanks for the help guys

edit. oh and btw the reason i used such sensationalist headlines is to get attention so more people read it and try to help thats all

Last edited by DhavalVashi : 18-02-2009 at 19:23.
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 18-02-2009, 20:39
minisimon's Avatar
minisimon minisimon is offline
Registered User
AKA: Simon Helmore
FRC #0238
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 14
minisimon will become famous soon enoughminisimon will become famous soon enough
Re: Blown up electrical board

I would go ahead and double check your cRio power cable as well. Shorting the power supply may cause it drop out, and a free wire could short one day and be fixed the next. Make sure that you don't have any exposed wire near the connectors.
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 18-02-2009, 20:44
DhavalVashi's Avatar
DhavalVashi DhavalVashi is offline
Registered User
FRC #1241 (Theory 6)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 9
DhavalVashi is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Blown up electrical board

yea, one of the posts said that we could damage the cRio if the wires are not properly connected in the WAGO connector. we took them out and re-connected them on both ends. i hope it does not happen again because it would be sad to have a really good robot but not be able to use it because of a loose wire.
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 18-02-2009, 21:45
crake crake is offline
National Instruments
AKA: Chris Rake
no team (Athena)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 184
crake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Blown up electrical board

Quote:
Originally Posted by DhavalVashi View Post
yea, one of the posts said that we could damage the cRio if the wires are not properly connected in the WAGO connector. we took them out and re-connected them on both ends. i hope it does not happen again because it would be sad to have a really good robot but not be able to use it because of a loose wire.
If you're up and running, you can go ahead and cancel the RMA request
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 19-02-2009, 00:23
DhavalVashi's Avatar
DhavalVashi DhavalVashi is offline
Registered User
FRC #1241 (Theory 6)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Posts: 9
DhavalVashi is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Blown up electrical board

yes we will once we finish our testing properly. i know the cRios are expensive.
today we just finished wiring up our practice robot and we turned it on and it worked surprisingly. we tested camera "feed" and it worked. we havent done any other tests yet.
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 19-02-2009, 00:37
RyanN's Avatar
RyanN RyanN is offline
RyanN
AKA: Ryan Nazaretian
FRC #4901 (Garnet Squadron)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 1,126
RyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Blown up electrical board

No one has mentioned this... What about your power distribution board? I know it's outputting the correct voltage at no load, but it shouldn't be going down to 3V.

How much current is being pulled by the cRIO when you try to run it.

I'm trying to find the power requirements for the cRIO...

EDIT:
Quote:
Power Requirements:
Recommended power supply ................. FIRST Power Distribution Board
24 VDC supply
Power consumption with
I/O modules installed ............................. 20 W maximum
Power supply input range....................... 19 to 30 V
A = W / V

So 20W at 24V = 20W/24V = 10W/12V = 5W/6V = .83A Max

So if you measure the current from the Power Distribution Board to the cRIO, it should not go past .83A. If it does, then it's the cRIO, if not, it's the PDB.
__________________
Garnet Squadron
FRC 4901
Controls Mentor
@rnazaretian

Previous mentor and student from Team Fusion, FRC 364

Last edited by RyanN : 19-02-2009 at 00:42.
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 19-02-2009, 00:45
crake crake is offline
National Instruments
AKA: Chris Rake
no team (Athena)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 184
crake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond reputecrake has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Blown up electrical board

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanN View Post
So if you measure the current from the Power Distribution Board to the cRIO, it should not go past .83A. If it does, then it's the cRIO, if not, it's the PDB.
Also the 24V supply on the PD is fused. Dropping to 3V is very unusual, and is more of an indication of starvation on the 12V side.
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 19-02-2009, 00:50
Vikesrock's Avatar
Vikesrock Vikesrock is offline
Team 2175 Founder
AKA: Kevin O'Connor
no team
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 3,305
Vikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Vikesrock Send a message via MSN to Vikesrock Send a message via Yahoo to Vikesrock
Re: Blown up electrical board

Note that that problem was solved by reseating the cRIO power wires, a poor connection here makes perfect sense for the symptoms described.

You would get ~24V with no load, but as soon as the cRIO is plugged in the voltage would plummet as current is pulled through the high impedance connection.
__________________


2007 Wisconsin Regional Highest Rookie Seed & Regional Finalists (Thanks 930 & 2039)
2008 MN Regional Semifinalists (Thanks 2472 & 1756)
2009 Northstar Regional Semifinalists (Thanks 171 & 525)
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 19-02-2009, 00:56
Alan Anderson's Avatar
Alan Anderson Alan Anderson is offline
Software Architect
FRC #0045 (TechnoKats)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Kokomo, Indiana
Posts: 9,112
Alan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Blown up electrical board

Quote:
Originally Posted by DhavalVashi View Post
yea, one of the posts said that we could damage the cRio if the wires are not properly connected in the WAGO connector.
What post said that? I'd like to know which connector it was talking about.
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
pic: Electrical Board team63 Extra Discussion 3 05-02-2009 15:33
Electrical board materials? gwilliam Electrical 15 28-01-2009 10:53
Metal Electrical Board aaeamdar Rules/Strategy 3 16-02-2008 20:49
Team 384's Electrical Board!!! sayso_411 Robot Showcase 11 14-02-2008 21:51
pic: 494 Electrical Board. want2modmygt Robot Showcase 2 12-02-2006 14:28


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:02.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi