Rule G22

[ReaperGoat]

Originally Posted by EricH

Were there any challenges?

Unfortunately, I couldn't tell if people were being allowed to challenge any of the calls, since we got there part way through. They had had an issue with the field earlier in the day, so they were running behind schedule. I'm guessing that there was at least one challenge, since one of the calls was overturned because one of the reset people moved a ball, but Andy Grady kept emphasizing that it was a penalty after every match. (I think a lot of the teams there were too worried about the robots working than making a challenge, with only 3 days left to fix anything that went wrong.)

[Stu Bloom]

Originally Posted by EricH

I said this last year, but it bears repeating: I don't care what whoever says at Kickoff, if it isn't in the rules, it isn't in the rules. If it isn't in the rules, it isn't a rule. If it's enforced as a rule, EVERY team that gets penalized has grounds for a challenge. And they've only got 1 update to make it a rule/not a rule.

You should be careful stating absolutes regarding the rules. There is usually room for various interpretations.

If there is no rules update that addresses this issue I would suggest asking the question at your driver's meeting. And in this specific case I suspect that it will not matter which SC is played, as long as there is a 1 for 1 relationship. However, please refer to the recent communication sent out by FIRST, which states in NO uncertain terms:

... once the Head Referee has made a decision, the decision is FINAL! FIRST will not overturn any Head Referee decisions...

So, challenge if you must, but I believe FIRSTs position is very clear on that point ...

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Stu Bloom

You should be careful stating absolutes regarding the rules. There is usually room for various interpretations.

If there is no rules update that addresses this issue I would suggest asking the question at your driver's meeting. And in this specific case I suspect that it will not matter which SC is played, as long as there is a 1 for 1 relationship. However, please refer to the recent communication sent out by FIRST, which states in NO uncertain terms: So, challenge if you must, but I believe FIRSTs position is very clear on that point ...

In this case, the GDC has ruled in Q&A that penalties must be backed by the Manual. The refs at Suffield were apparently giving penalties that are nowhere to be found in the Manual. Until there's an Update that says that this is the procedure, or FIRST releases official documentation saying the same thing, this isn't a rule, or rather, not penalizable.

The "Challenge" I refer to is the clarification process, as teams may sometimes see it. I.E. Team YZXA goes to the Head Ref and says, "Excuse me, but why was this penalty given?" If a Head Ref can find a rule that says this, then the team has clarification. If a Head Ref can't find the rule, then he or she needs to retract the penalty if at all possible, similar to how a football ref can pick up thrown flags if he finds he made a mistake.

[Mr_D_Mentor]

Originally Posted by EricH

Were there any challenges?

I don't think anyone challenged, based on it not being a rule. We didn't bring a copy of the rules with us to the shakedown, and even if we did, I doubt we could have figured it out in time. It took me a couple of hours to convince myself when I finally looked it up the next day. I think everyone there just assumed that the officials must be right.