Human players are costing points

[Elgin Clock]

Originally Posted by engunneer

no, the only requirement is that they start the match on the hook.

It seems like a good idea to leave them there so you don't accidentally throw one.

That sounds good in theory but the problem with that is they tend to fall off (by chance, or by a robot hitting the shield) & be mixed in with the other regular ones in the bins.
I will be advising my PS's in the Outposts to take them off the rack & maybe put them at their feet to seperate them from the others to avoid being thrown over the wall accidentally - or as soon as the match is started, to take them off the walls & do some sorting of the bins so that one is Empty's & one is regular cells.
Either case should help & not be too time consuming. Hopefully! lol

[Jared Russell]

Originally Posted by PhilBot

Yes, happened to us too. We were equally lucky, but only just

Maybe a good team give-away would be a handy dandy PS "don't do this" card.

We are making such cards to bring to our competitions this year.

[jkice]

We were penalized once in KC for our PS picking up two cells at once. Not throwing them mind you but having one in each hand at the same time.

In KC it was throw one, bend over, pick up the next one.

Everyone looked like those drinking duck toys.

[lukevanoort]

Originally Posted by jkice

We were penalized once in KC for our PS picking up two cells at once. Not throwing them mind you but having one in each hand at the same time.

In KC it was throw one, bend over, pick up the next one.

Everyone looked like those drinking duck toys.

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't see any rule requiring that human players only hold one of any game piece (robots are another story, but human player != robot).

[engunneer]

I think you should have contested that penalty.

I also think drivers/HPs should have a list of questions prepared for the driver's meeting.

[Elgin Clock]

Originally Posted by jkice

We were penalized once in KC for our PS picking up two cells at once. Not throwing them mind you but having one in each hand at the same time.
In KC it was throw one, bend over, pick up the next one.
Everyone looked like those drinking duck toys.

FYI: That is NOT a penalty based on a GDC answer and has been discussed before in this very thread as well:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...7&postcount=18

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=11772

[jkice]

I completely agree that it shouldn't have been a penalty but KC was visited many times with field problems and they were trying very hard to keep things moving.

That time and one other (when the controller for the red alliance rebooted in the middle of match and shut down the whole alliance) we were ushered off the field and not given a chance to protest. Or maybe more accurately were discouraged to do so.

[Killraine]

It stuns me to find out that the KC regional refs made such a huge mistake. The GDC expects every team to be responsible for knowing the rules, even the rookie teams that get punished at the events for not knowing the rules completely (or even really knowing that they should know them.) As a referee for the game, I'd expect you to have 100% knowledge of every game rule and every Q&A thread relating to the game. Anything less than that detracts from the game and causes unnecessary harm to teams.

Also, I noticed a number of times at the NJ regional that mid-station HP's threw empty cells over the wall without being penalized because no refs saw it happen. In my opinion, this game is hard to follow as an observer and seems even harder to regulate and score. In the future, I hope the GDC will see how a game like this comes out in the end and avoids the problems we have seen this year.

(No hard feelings to refs, especially in the FIRST week. You didn't know how the game was going to come out before this past weekend either, but to decide a whole regional on an assumption of a rule that has already been answered by the Q&A? The Q&A is sorted by category...at least lead the part that pertains to your job at the event...)

[Elgin Clock]

One more question for everyone just to be clear.

We all know that having "The tongs extending onto/into the field" = BAD & may result in a penalty.

What defines "The Field" in this instance?

1) Past the edge of the Airlock border? (Metal Rails)
or
2) Past the Alliance Station wall? (past & under)

My thought right now is that it is number 1.
Is this correct?

[big1boom]

Originally Posted by Elgin Clock

One more question for everyone just to be clear.

We all know that having "The tongs extending onto/into the field" = BAD & may result in a penalty.

What defines "The Field" in this instance?

1) Past the edge of the Airlock border? (Metal Rails)
or
2) Past the Alliance Station wall?

My thought right now is that it is number 1.
Is this correct?

At Midwest the PS was allowed to grab any ball that the tethered tongs could reach, even if it was past the airlock. The thing was that if they touched a robot at all, they would be disqualified from the match.

[IndySam]

Originally Posted by Elgin Clock

One more question for everyone just to be clear.

We all know that having "The tongs extending onto/into the field" = BAD & may result in a penalty.

What defines "The Field" in this instance?

1) Past the edge of the Airlock border? (Metal Rails)
or
2) Past the Alliance Station wall? (past & under)

My thought right now is that it is number 1.
Is this correct?

yes

<G40>D. The PAYLOAD SPECIALISTS is permitted to reach through the FUELING PORT with the provided tongs to manipulate GAME PIECES in the “dead space” between the AIRLOCK and the FUELING PORT. However, any contact with a ROBOT while doing so will be considered a violation of Rule <S02>.

[Elgin Clock]

Originally Posted by IndySam

yes

<G40>D. The PAYLOAD SPECIALISTS is permitted to reach through the FUELING PORT with the provided tongs to manipulate GAME PIECES in the “dead space” between the AIRLOCK and the FUELING PORT. However, any contact with a ROBOT while doing so will be considered a violation of Rule <S02>.

I just actually re-read that revised part (per Update #3) & was about to retract my statement.
Thanks!!

[Justin Montois]

Originally Posted by PhilBot

The biggests one is that the Payload specialists on the refuling station are touching the super cells before the 20 sec.end game.

It's not enough to just wait to throw them, they can't even touch them before the last 20 seconds.

Phil

I feel this has been hashed and re-hashed here before but I can't seem to find it anywhere....

The most updated rules say "If a SUPERCELL is REMOVED from the CELL RACK before the last 20 seconds of the MATCH then two (2) PENALTIES will be assigned"

This dosen't say anything about not being able to "touch" it(EX. place your hand on it to be ready at the 20 second mark.)

I say as long as it stays on the cell rack then it's NOT a penalty. Can anyone please confirm/refute this for me.Thanks.

-Justin

[PhilBot]

Originally Posted by 340x4xLife

I say as long as it stays on the cell rack then it's NOT a penalty. Can anyone please confirm/refute this for me.Thanks.
-Justin

OK, I was trying to stress the point that they couldn't even be picked up before the 20 seconds (teams seemed to think it was only a penalty if your threw them befor 20 warning). I wasn't trying to insist that you couldn't actually lay a hand on them (my-bad for not being literal enough .

However, if you are counting on a referee to make that touch/remove distinction during the heat of the game, I think you are asking for trouble. If a referee sees the PS reach over and place a hand on the cell before the 20 second warning, they "may" jump to the conclusion that it was going to be removed....

If they call the penalty, then you are faced with the problem of convincing them you only touched it, and didn't actually "remove" it. What if you trip, and actually rock the ball in it's holder?.... is it removed or not?..... another jugement call.

Is that split second advantage worth the potential grief, and penalty?
That's a call only you can make, but be ready to defend your actions.

[rsisk]

Oh yeah. Tossing an Empty Cell over the outpost wall cost a match and dropped us 15 places in the standings.

Not using the tongs in the airlock cost us six penalties.

Half of our losses were mistakes that could have been prevented.

For those who have not played a regional yet, read the rules in Section 7 of the rules and make sure you have the latest update. Seriously, save yourself some grief