New CRIO in the KOP next year?

[topgun]

Has anyone heard of any official FIRST announcements as to whether or not a CRIO will be included in the KOP next year for existing teams?

There was some discussion at one point that FIRST may not include a CRIO in the KOP for teams that already have one. I am wondering if there have been any announcements about that.

- T

[JesseK]

Around this time last year, it was announced that the teams would only have one cRIO ever unless they specifically purchased more. This means that there will not be another cRIO in the KOP. This is so that the cost of the KOP doesn't skyrocket another few $k.

[Bob Steele]

I do believe that teams will have to option of purchasing a cRio next year for the same highly reduced price that the 2nd one was offered for this year.

I think that teams need to start exploring the possibilities of more modular design for their robot that allows the cRio to be easily removed and moved from one application to another.

One can purchase the other boards at a reasonable cost... simply moving a few cables and adding power allows the cRio to be put into a new system quite easily...

Our team will be designing a simple bench testing application that will allow us to power up motors , pneumatics etc... to help teach new programmers ....
We plan on testing new encoders and other sensors with our bench applicatoin..we will use the same cRIO and plug it in and out...

[Eugene Fang]

If you visit http://decibel.ni.com/content/community/first you will see that on the right in red words that teams can purchase a cRIO for $750 once a year.

[Taylor]

I would certainly hope that every year's KOP comes with a complete control system. Many new and/or struggling teams use their old robots in exhibitions and fundraisers. Having only one control system total would severely hamper the ability of teams to venture out into their communities and gain support.

[Bob Steele]

Perhaps we will continue to get all of the control system parts except the cRio itself. This would be quite reasonable... especially considering that something will have to be done to the driver's station...

If teams continue to receive all of the other system parts... ie digital sidecar, analog sidecars, power distribution block...radios ...etc...
they would not have a real difficult time switching the cRio back and forth.

We will see what happens in just 8 months at kick off... or possibly sooner.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Don't quote me but it seems I heard a rumor that NI was working on a stripped down (less $$$) version for the future. I would really like to see some imbedded analog and digital modules if some enterprising company would like a project. I don't have anything against the current hardware, just would like to miniaturize and simplify the hardware for rookies.

[dtengineering]

If leaving the cRio out of the KoP allows FIRST to reduce entry fees by $750 (the discounted price of a replacement cRio) then teams would have the option to either pay $6,000 and get a new cRio, or pay $5,250 and re-use their old one.

If FIRST makes replacing the entire control system optional, then entry fees, perhaps could be reduced by even more than the $750 discounted cost of the cRio.

I'm not sure how best to handle entry fees for rookie teams, who don't already have a cRio, as I believe it is important to keep the "entry barrier" to a competition like this as low as possible, however I know that our team, for one, would seriously consider reusing our cRio and modules if it meant saving in the neighbourhood of a thousand bucks.

By the way, we have a fairly modular control board on our robot that weighs about 14 pounds, includes the cRio, sidecars, breaker box, power switch, speed controllers and a couple of spikes that can be attached and detached in, well, probably 10 minutes or so.

Photos of the control board and drive modules are at:

http://www.trobotics.ca/#Build%20Season%202009

Photo 19 shows the control board, 21 shows it hooked up to drive modules, Photo 26 in that gallery probably shows our modular design in its most separated stage, other photos show us weighing the modules (our withholding limit) and the very minimalist package that went in the shipping crate, as we were able to keep the drive modules and control board at home for practice.

Jason

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by dtengineering

If leaving the cRio out of the KoP allows FIRST to reduce entry fees by $750 (the discounted price of a replacement cRio) then teams would have the option to either pay $6,000 and get a new cRio, or pay $5,250 and re-use their old one.

If FIRST makes replacing the entire control system optional, then entry fees, perhaps could be reduced by even more than the $750 discounted cost of the cRio.

I'm not sure how best to handle entry fees for rookie teams, who don't already have a cRio, as I believe it is important to keep the "entry barrier" to a competition like this as low as possible, however I know that our team, for one, would seriously consider reusing our cRio and modules if it meant saving in the neighbourhood of a thousand bucks.

You make me think of an interesting idea, what if FIRST gave teams the opportunity to customize their KOP. I know logistically it would be a nightmare but from my perspective it would be nice to not get things we never use. For example, I know there are teams that never use the kitbot frame. I also know that we would have preferred to have the IFI frame over the AndyMark one (Just due to our knowing the limitations of it) I am sure there are teams that have 4 kitbot frames sitting in their shop that they have never used. Why should they have to pay for them? From that perspective, let teams choose their KOP contents well ahead of time and FIRST can save a little money by not providing teams that dont want a part with all the parts.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by dtengineering

If leaving the cRio out of the KoP allows FIRST to reduce entry fees by $750 (the discounted price of a replacement cRio) then teams would have the option to either pay $6,000 and get a new cRio, or pay $5,250 and re-use their old one.

That would be awesome...But what are the odds of FIRST actually charging us less when we receive a lesser product, instead of just continuing to charge us the full cost for less?

[sdcantrell56]

Originally Posted by Cory

That would be awesome...But what are the odds of FIRST actually charging us less when we receive a lesser product, instead of just continuing to charge us the full cost for less?

Im with you whole heartedly on this Cory. We purchased a complete system at the beginning of this season so that we can always have 2 robots up and running. Now if FIRST does not include a control system next year in the KOP, the entry fee better be reduced. I along with, I believe, many people are already slightly leary about the finances of FIRST and this would just solidify things in my mind. From what Dean said, NI donated all of the systems so I don't see what we would be paying for next season if we dont get another system. I am completely ok with reusing the CRio, but please FIRST, reduce the already high entry fee. I guess it would also be nice if FIRST offered a KOP without a lot of the parts that many teams end up not using like the kitbot. That should be fairly easy since I believe the kit bot is in a separate box than the other crates. I guess after seeing that FIRST can be run cheaper from the michigan district format, I don't really understand why all teams can't have reduced entry fees.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Cory

That would be awesome...But what are the odds of FIRST actually charging us less when we receive a lesser product, instead of just continuing to charge us the full cost for less?

Somewhere around being struck by lightning 4 times in a row.

[flyingcrayons]

i certainly do hope that a new cRIO is included, or we can buy one for a discount. 1089's broke during CMP's, and we are currently borrowing the one 2590 won in the raffle. funnily, that cRIO has the signatures of the president and founders of N/I, and its sitting in our robot...

thx to 2590 for that, and i really hope we can find one soon so we can return it to you...

[Imadapocalypse]

i hope a new cRio will be in the new KOP
we drilled holes into the one we had in order to make weight
unfortunately that was illegal and we had to borrow at both regionals and Championships

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Imadapocalypse

i hope a new cRio will be in the new KOP
we drilled holes into the one we had in order to make weight
unfortunately that was illegal and we had to borrow at both regionals and Championships

I guess you found out the hard way that you should read the whole manual, not just the "important parts". Lesson learned, I hope...

If there isn't a cRIO in the KOP, you'll have to buy one at the discounted price.