TRA - No Longer Just A Rumor

[GarrettF2395]

Originally Posted by Katie_UPS

But look at Dean and his FIRST alumni base, its working out, but not quite as hot as he was hoping.

Well right... But this is Dean we're talking about...
He founded FIRST, so naturally if he asks everyone to do something over the telecast, then of course almost everyone is going to do it.

So... Maybe we should have Dean talk about your website during kick off!

[Chris is me]

I think that promotion on CD will get a lot of teams involved. If this is done well before Kickoff, I'll see to it that all of the teams I know start using it. Eventually there will be a tipping point where it will become a serious disadvantage if you don't.

One thing this site should do is have very specific sections and details. If it's too open like FIRSTWiki people won't know what to do.

[carpenma]

So... Maybe we should have Dean talk about your website during kick off!

I know! Wouldn't that be awesome? Assuming its ready then does anyone know who I would contact?

The best bet for getting the site to really take off is to combine all our methods, tell fellow teams, get big names (well numbers) involved and broadcast it on the webcast. I'm pretty much done with a simple demo profile page that I wrote in pure HTML on my teams robot from last year (No PHP yet) I'm having a little technical difficulties with my host but when its all sorted out I'll upload it, post a link, and you guys can give feedback so I can make layout and design changes before I start writing the code. Stay tuned and thank you for your continued support and enthusiasm!

[ttldomination]

I know that when a new thing gets announced, teams get excited and they start suggesting ideas that would benefit their team, or the process as a whole, and people sometimes tend to forget things that other programs might need.

I know that week 3, I can go to TBA, and scout my heart out and get a good feel for how our matches are going to run. I generally know what each robot looks like and how to defend who, but I think that FTC and FLL are LARGELY neglected in this area.

I agree that that a facebook style page or a page with pictures (???) would be alright, but considering that the FTC and FLL programs don't even have one central place they can all go for match turnouts, videos, etc. I think we're putting the two other programs on a back burner...ALL the way on the back burner.

And it's not to say that record of winners is not available. The TBA website has a record of winners, as well as the FIRST website. And as for documentation, Chief Delphi itself has A LOT of documentation and WPI and Simbotics also have a lot of information.

So while whatever we do with TRA might seem cool and fun, I think that the TRA should go towards promoting FTC & FLL and just maybe make things a little bit easier for them as well.

EDIT: And for promoting your website, I think it'd be better if you create it first. . If the website is as rock solid and fun as you plan it to be, then it will get recognition on its own.

[carpenma]

FTC and FLL are LARGELY neglected

I agree, that's why I made that an option. I just tried to supply as many different options to see what subjects people felt they needed another place to find information on. I won't necessarily create an area solely for awards, but rather work them into team/robot pages for example. And once the initial site is done I'm hoping to spend part of my senior year creating mini sites for the other divisions before handing it off to someone else when I graduate.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by ttldomination

... FTC and FLL are LARGELY neglected in this area.

I agree that that a facebook style page or a page with pictures (???) would be alright, but considering that the FTC and FLL programs don't even have one central place they can all go for match turnouts, videos, etc. I think we're putting the two other programs on a back burner...ALL the way on the back burner.

Information for such a large number of teams/robots is near impossible to collect and organize. if you have an idea of which select teams to have databased feel free to post it up.

I do not believe the interest level for something like FLL or even most FTC tournaments is that high. The only legitimate type of scouting resource I could see coming online/worth the trouble for would be for teams attending the World Championships. And even that, who would record all the data from their match history?

FLL- pages about this would be, IMHO, useless.
FTC- pages regarding matches of teams attending the World Championships would be the only partially useful thing.

In all honesty, the only section that seems useful because its unavailable at the moment would be a photo archive with unlimited space and easy to upload. Very much like photobucket, an album for each team. Then again, I'm sure The Blue Alliance could do this upon request. It would need to be screened very quickly (unlike CD media) for only TECHNICAL photos. No silly little facebook type pictures. Or just search for tags of a specific team on here....

[ttldomination]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

Information for such a large number of teams/robots is near impossible to collect and organize. if you have an idea of which select teams to have databased feel free to post it up.

I do not believe the interest level for something like FLL or even most FTC tournaments is that high. The only legitimate type of scouting resource I could see coming online/worth the trouble for would be for teams attending the World Championships. And even that, who would record all the data from their match history?

FLL- pages about this would be, IMHO, useless.
FTC- pages regarding matches of teams attending the World Championships would be the only partially useful thing.

In all honesty, the only section that seems useful because its unavailable at the moment would be a photo archive with unlimited space and easy to upload. Very much like photobucket, an album for each team. Then again, I'm sure The Blue Alliance could do this upon request. It would need to be screened very quickly (unlike CD media) for only TECHNICAL photos. No silly little facebook type pictures. Or just search for tags of a specific team on here....

I don't exactly see your basis for saying that teams won't use them...

If this resource is available and teams are told that they are available, then why wouldn't a team want to use them? Currently there is nothing like this for the FLL/FTC program, so you can't exactly say that there is an example where something like this has failed for this program.

In my opinion, I think that if this resource is available to a team, then I see no reason why teams wouldn't use it. The Blue Alliance is more than just match scheduling, but instead it keeps up FRC information, program updates, kick-off agenda, etc.

For now, I know of no central FLL websites, and There are a bunch of FTC websites that one has to check in order to get updated information.

And gathering information for the vast amount of teams won't be EASY. Of course it'll be a challenge, but it's one that, sooner or later, needs to be met.

And as far as the photo idea is concerned, teams BARELY update their websites...and now you're asking them to update a photo page for their robot? It's not to say that all teams don't update their website, but there are a great number of teams that don't update their website.

And it won't mater if teams like 67, 111, 11, 1114, 217 and the other known teams post pictures...their pictures are already available on their own websites, and if we expect people follow what these "known" teams do, then the other teams would have updated websites as well.

I think that this is a gamble worth taking. Carpenma, if your website is indeed good, you'll find that FIRST will promote it on its own, and all of a sudden, you'll have thousands of FLL and FTC teams coming to your website to see what the new, helpful tool is, not to mention that these programs are growing at a great rate and if your website is truly good, then they'll turn to your website for help and guidance.

[carpenma]

I hate to be making 75% of the posts in this thread but...

And gathering information for the vast amount of teams won't be EASY. Of course it'll be a challenge, but it's one that, sooner or later, needs to be met.

Precisely, if nobody collected it because they all thought it was too hard than no one would have it. However, this information is not going to be collected solely by myself. I hope to, at some point, have teams update their own info and even, if necessary, have one or two teams volunteer at each event to load info on who won different awards if the information is not readily available.

There are definitely going to be some spots that may cause some trouble, teams lack of motivation to update pages and add photos and the like.

And by no means do I expect this site to be perfect by the time I graduate, as mason (Robstangs548) put it, I have to leave something for future generations of FIRST members. So what doesn't get done by me (hopefully) will be done by my successor.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by ttldomination

And as far as the photo idea is concerned, teams BARELY update their websites...and now you're asking them to update a photo page for their robot? It's not to say that all teams don't update their website, but there are a great number of teams that don't update their website.

And it won't mater if teams like 67, 111, 11, 1114, 217 and the other known teams post pictures...their pictures are already available on their own websites, and if we expect people follow what these "known" teams do, then the other teams would have updated websites as well.

To be fair, most team sites are not made with a server-side CMS that can be edited from any webpage, and often only a few people on the team have FTP access or the time to make the site. Entering in data is a lot easier than that.

[GarrettF2395]

Originally Posted by ttldomination

And it won't mater if teams like 67, 111, 11, 1114, 217 and the other known teams post pictures...their pictures are already available on their own websites, and if we expect people follow what these "known" teams do, then the other teams would have updated websites as well.

When I made this comment, I wasn't solely referring to the Photo Archive.
I was also talking about "FIRSTBook" (facebook for FIRST teams).

I also agree with Chris.
On most teams, there are few people that have access to the teams website.
I know, I have no access to my own teams website...
If I did, it might be updated on a regular basis.
But I don't. So, it would be much easier for me to update a team page that I can quickly log on and update with a few quick clicks.

[BandChick]

Please please PLEASE let me design you a website that's as sleek and useable as the TBA site?

PM me - I won't have free time until mid-August, but I think we can get something that's both useable, intuitive, and well-designed ready before the 2010 build season.

[Mr. Pockets]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

Information for such a large number of teams/robots is near impossible to collect and organize. if you have an idea of which select teams to have databased feel free to post it up

If you are referring to FLL teams then consider that a significant number of FLL teams have connections or are assisted by FRC teams (warning: don't actually know this for a fact, basing my comment of how things worked in our area). But if that is the fact then what if the teams who have connections to the local FLL teams simply collect the information from those teams. That way each team collects the data for maybe a handful of teams, and if enough teams do that then you've got a lot of FLL teams accounted for. As long as enough teams are interested collecting the data might not be so bad (though organizing the data would probably still be a pain). Just an idea...

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pockets

If you are referring to FLL teams then consider that a significant number of FLL teams have connections or are assisted by FRC teams (warning: don't actually know this for a fact, basing my comment of how things worked in our area). But if that is the fact then what if the teams who have connections to the local FLL teams simply collect the information from those teams. That way each team collects the data for maybe a handful of teams, and if enough teams do that then you've got a lot of FLL teams accounted for. As long as enough teams are interested collecting the data might not be so bad (though organizing the data would probably still be a pain). Just an idea...

My point is still that a match database for FLL teams is a little useless because FLL requires no scouting in competition. I just don't see the benefits of an FLL database of all teams. Somebody just explain it to me.


And yes, please do let Sarah design your website, her work is awesome.

[Mr. Pockets]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

My point is still that a match database for FLL teams is a little useless because FLL requires no scouting in competition. I just don't see the benefits of an FLL database of all teams. Somebody just explain it to me.

I see...but even without a need for scouting an FLL database might be worthwhile. The simple idea of having records of FLL matches might be useful. That's one of TBA's uses, isn't it?

[Chris is me]

There's a lot of FLL teams, and not a lot of following teams and robots year after year. I mean, the numbers change every year as do a lot of team names, so it's pretty difficult to get teams logged based on that... I just wouldn't even touch FLL.

FTC there's a significant need for a database. Or any match filming. Or any webcasting. If you want a lower level competition to analyze, do FTC.