Adults as Coaches on the field

[NorviewsVeteran]

Its starting to sound like the Blue Collar Comedy Tour's "I Believe" sessions, so I will say this:

I belieeeve: that if you are making a decision between a student coach or an adult coach, you are making the wrong decision. You should take in to consideration who you are putting on to the field, not what. And what Jon said.

[nlknauss]

To quickly add to the value of "adult coaches"...

In my experience as a student driver, students are able to see adult mentors model good networking/collaboration techniques with other people that they met a moment before hand. Certainly something we want all of our students to develop as a part of this experience to add to their toolbox. I think that is one of the characteristics of all the WFFAs and WFAs above and absolutely a value I try to emulate as an adult coach now.

Remember, the value of mentors in FIRST is immeasurable.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by OScubed

On our team our adult mentors stay where they belong - on the sidelines. es that bear the responsibility.

Please cite me something, anything, from FIRST that says mentors "belong on the sidelines" or anything to that effect. This is simply a fallacy.

Teams may OPT for their adult mentors to guide from "the sidelines," and it is a perfectly acceptable strategy. But other teams find a different method, with more involved mentors, suits them better. Just because you prefer your mentors to have a more hands-off approach doesn't mean mentors "belong on the sidelines."

Originally Posted by OScubed

By placing an adult mentor in the coaching role on the field you are depriving a student of the experience. Our best and most dedicated team members have come into their own in a leadership role through being coaches.

And by placing a student on the drive team, you're denying three other students on your team and many more on other teams the experience of working with a (hopefully gifted and inspirational) mentor. It works both ways.


I'm all for both student and adult coaches. It depends on the needs and wishes of your team, and what works best for you. I've spelled out my opinions and individual factors in several other threads about this topic, and I've coached both as a student and as a college mentor. The one thing I do feel important is chemistry, and making sure the drivers and coaches have time to work together before going onto the field (and even from year to year) in order to figure out how to best work with each other.

[Chris is me]

And by placing a student on the drive team, you're denying three other students on your team and many more on other teams the experience of working with a (hopefully gifted and inspirational) mentor. It works both ways.

On the contrary, would depriving the three students of direct involvement with that mentor for those matches have any sway on whether or not they are inspired to pursue science and engineering careers and challenges?

[JVN]

Originally Posted by OScubed

Our best and most dedicated team members have come into their own in a leadership role through being coaches.

Maybe because they had the benefit of interacting with the many great adult coaches in FIRST?

[Chris is me]

I agree with the OP in that having a student coach creates another opportunity for the student to learn and be inspired, and that can't be underestimated. I've said that in the other thread, though, if you're interested in my thoughts on the matter.

I totally disagree with the idea that because you want your team to have an additional leadership opportunity, you should force every other team to do it the same way just to be "fair". While I won't regurgitate the standard "FIRST isn't supposed to be fair" argument (though true), some teams benefit more from the additional mentoring and inspiration that an adult coach can bring.

Your FIRST team (and mine) may be oriented around maximizing the learning potential of its students, but that doesn't mean every team has to be that way. Many teams run in a style that puts inspiration FIRST (as well as learning).

[Stephen Kowski]

Originally Posted by OScubed

On our team our adult mentors stay where they belong - on the sidelines. As you rightly pointed out - this is a student experience.

By placing an adult mentor in the coaching role on the field you are depriving a student of the experience.

where they belong? were they on the sidelines at any other portion of the build? if not then why would this be an exception to the rest of the build period?

did they get less of an experience building the robot because of the involvement of mentors? it seems what is lost somewhere is that this is not a program where the student are on their own all the time.....it is meant to have mentor involvement, for "Inspiration".....

did you miss dave's speech during the kickoff about what separates this from other similar competitions?

[AdamHeard]

As a student, i preferred working with the best, not working while the best watch from a distance.

I didn't get inspired watching my peers and I, I was inspired watching professionals.

[Taylor]

One thing that struck me in the OP is who instigated the change. It appears to me that your team is more student-centered along the spectrum; I think the adult/student coach decision should be made by the students in your case, and I think it should be made for the right reasons - because it would better serve your team and its values/goals, not because "the good teams do it."
You can try alternate coaches at offseason events (IRI, CAGE Match) to see how they work out; then you can make an informed decision come Regional season.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

As a student, i preferred working with the best, not working while the best watch from a distance.

"The post you are spotlighting already has spotlights."

I didn't get inspired watching my peers and I, I was inspired watching professionals.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to AdamHeard again."

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by TimSet

Our team utilizes a student coach on the field during competitions. Some adults on our team have suggested that we start having an adult on the field as a couch because many of the "good" teams have adults. My thoughts are that this is a high school competition and if we are to prepare our students for real life then why not give them the experience of competition. But this could make it unfair as some teams choose to have adults with many years of experience on the field. What do other teams think about a rule change that only allows students as coachs.

You have good points. I encourage you to read the thread that has been linked, particularly, dlavery's contributions.

If the team wants to have an adult simply because the "good" teams have adults as coaches, the team needs to identify some of these teams that they have in mind, and then look at the coaches to identify what they contribute as the coach. I can guarantee that many of them are excellent strategists. In my opinion, that is a key element in being a good coach for FRC competitions. Also, networking with other teams, communicating with other teams, keeping the drive team focused and steady. The teams that you are looking at have all of those qualities and more, I'm sure. Thing is, those qualities can be found in some student coaches as well. It depends on the team. Just make sure that you are looking at all sides of topic and not just on a superficial level.

Edit: I just went back into the FAHA link and re-read it. Karthik's post is also an excellent source of insight in this area. Read the link that he has provided and the posts of the mentors/coaches that he has highlighted as well. Good stuff.

[Molten]

I know this is your first post, so you probably haven't heard this before. But please search before you post. I personally have been involved in at least 3 threads on this same topic due to lack of searching.

BTW: Welcome to CD.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Molten

I know this is your first post, so you probably haven't heard this before. But please search before you post. I personally have been involved in at least 3 threads on this same topic due to lack of searching.

This is true, Jason, but at the same time, I haven't seen the reasoning that the OP of this thread has presented before. I'm not sure everyone understands the depth of opportunities that the coaching position brings to the game. In the discussions, we often get caught up in the argument and do not talk about the position or the whys.

In my opinion, many teams compete on superficial levels and it takes a few competitions for the light bulb to go on and for the team to say, hm, wonder what makes the difference and why? That is why I value the conferences that are made available to teams at the Championship in Atlanta. The speakers are knowledgeable and wise and have a lot of experience in areas that can help teams move to that next level of competition. This thread could be an opportunity to explore some of that.

Just an .02
Jane