From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals

[Akash Rastogi]

(These are my own opinions, not of my team's)

I know that whole "everyone's a winner" attitude in FIRST, but does anyone consider the participation medals for FRC (not FLL or maybe even FTC) as something of a "pity" medal in the loose sense of the word?

It may just be me and my little cynical outlook but I really just found out about participation medals this year, but before that its not like I thought of myself as a "loser" on a "losing team." I was taught by mentors who I love and experienced anything worth experiencing each of the years we didn't win anything and didn't receive a medal or recognition. I never felt anything when an opposing team's members received big shiny medallions and I walked away with what I wanted, my own sense of accomplishment. *

Is it just me coming from a veteran team who has a decent past? Or would I feel the same if I was from a brand new team or an old veteran with no interesting history, awards, medals, honors, recognition, wins, etc..? I honestly believe anyone who knows why they are in FIRST would choose the latter of the two.** Then again, have I not been in FIRST long enough to understand what it really means to be a part of it?

Basically, I guess what I'm trying to say is, if "you're all winners" is a fundamental ideal of FIRST, do kids (at the high school level) really need a symbolic reference to their experiences on a team, in the shape of a medal that is?

*One of my most precious moments from this year and probably for the rest of my life had nothing to do with my own team, it was hearing via webcast that a team I spent most of my time helping won the Chairman's Award at the Sacramento Regional. 1323, much love

**(And I do not say this and mean that medals for winners/finalists/chairman's winners would not be needed either, because after all, this IS A COMPETITION)

[nlknauss]

First, I think it's great that FIRST is open to our input on this. There are many organizations out there that really just believe that "They should be happy with whatever they get." I'm sure that is how many of us feel regardless of their decision.

I certainly believe that a small pin, designed along the lines of the chairman's pin, would be fine. From year to year, the only thing that should really need to be updated with the design might be the year and the game name (which isn't even included on any medal). I believe it was mentioned in a prior post that the medals are shipped with the fields, so leave shipping out. If they're only considering the cost of producing the medal then I'm all about having them.

The idea of a pin would really be cool. I think it would be pretty cool to see people wearing their pins back to competitions and getting some extra use out of them. I really don't ever remember any student wearing their medallions after having received them. It might be easier (and much more safe) to sport a pin at a competition rather than a medal.

[Tom Line]

Originally Posted by EricH

I'd go for the following:
1) replace the bronze medals with pins of some kind
2) restore the old trophy sizes
3) eliminate the automatic second trophy per award (Any team that wants it can request it, though--they pay shipping)
4) local suppliers for the trophies and medals, if possible--have them show up Wed. during field setup with trophies boxed, then any leftover trophies get set on to the next event or ATL.

Seems that that could reduce a lot of shipping costs, and some production costs at the same time. Logistics are a little more convoluted, but how many teams actually give the second trophy to a sponsor? (And how many sponsors already have too many?)

I like the majority of your ideas - except #3.

We ALWAYS give our trophies to our major sponsor - the one that gives us space for our build, design, field, and kicks in a pretty penny to boot. They have the trophies in their community outreach cases, right in the main isle when you walk in.

Keep the second trophies!

[Bob Steele]

I would personally like to see a patch instead of a pin.
This could be a really nice patch with the current game logo and lots of color and could be very visually appealing.

This would be accompanied by a inverted arch patch that would be unique for each regional and for CMP... So you could wear the patch, and below it you could show the regional(s) you attended...

This would be great for a blanket or a jacket... and for putting in a scrap book.

There is another reason to switch away from the bronze medallions.
That would be trying to make FIRST more green...the amount of energy in creating and shipping those medals is pretty large so along with money savings we could also save some energy and become that much greener.

In the annual report, it is stated that FIRST awards 50,000 medals a year.
At $5 each in cost that would be $250,000. That is the minimum cost to run an entire regional.....

sorry about the image examples... just things I could find on the web.
although the dog inverted arches might be appropriate...lol

thanks

[Billfred]

For those that aren't subscribed to the feed, Bill Miller updated the blog today with a bit more detail about the idea.

[Rick TYler]

There are two real questions here:

1. Should there be a token of recognition for participation in FRC?

and

2. If the answer to #1 is "yes," what form should that recognition take?

Some of the arguments here have been financial, so I thought some facts might help to inform this discussion. The current medals are 2.75" with a custom ribbon. A few minutes spent on Google show that you can buy large lots of medals of this size in gold, silver, or bronze for less than $2 each.

Pricing the pins is a little harder, because they come in lots of different sizes and quality, but if FIRST is trying to save money, let's just assume a mid-range price of $.75 per pin. You can substitute whatever value you like, but high-end enameled pins are about $1.75 and cheaper "soft enamel" pins can be 50 cents or so.

According to the FIRST annual report, they handed out 50,000 FRC medallions last year, for an acquisition cost of $100,000. With our 75 cent price, pins would be $37,500, for an acquisition savings of $62,500.

Also according to FIRST's annual report, they brought in $14.4 million in program registration fees. Their total income was nearly $30 million. FIRST's cash, cash equivalents, and other assets increased by nearly $5 million last year. I cannot imagine that saving $60k on individual recognition to the students in the program is the best possible place to save money.

EDITED: I just found out that I pretty much recapitulated a post from Billfred from a few days ago. Oops.

[Elgin Clock]

Hey, I hear paper is cheaper than metal these days!
w0000 for participation certificates in the upcoming years!
And btw, I am being semi-sarcastic if you haven't picked up on that - I have no knowledge of downgrading the awards to anything other than the pins currently being discussed, but that is how I see it. A downgrade.

But you know that getting a paper certificate is a possible direction this could be headed in given the slow move over the past couple years to implement "cost savings" into the program & more-so into the awards segment of the overall organization.

I'm probably not going to be popular because of this post with some people, & that's just fine with me.
I just needed to give my true response to the situation at hand.

Stop the downgrading!

$0.02

[Libby K]

As I transfer over from the 'student side' of FIRST to the 'mentor side', it makes me sad to think that medals might go- I feel badly that my future students won't have that big, shiny, tangible thing that they can show off to their school, their friends, and their teachers, that lets them know that no matter what happened to their team this year, what they did with the FIRST program was important.

[Chris is me]

Call me a sucker but I kinda liked the everyone's a winner thing with participation medals. I loved being able to run home with a medal after each FTC tournament I did, because just getting there and functioning is worthy of recognition. I was really disspaointed when I just got a pin in 2008... but then things changed and stuff happened.

Of course this year I never got a bronze medal luckily, but it's still nice.

I'd be more okay with it if they brought back the gigantic trophies though. Picking up the FRC trophy, I think it was smaller than last year's FTC. Not quite as magical. Not that I'm bitter.

[Stephen Kowski]

The real question is of the $20 million/year how much of it goes to bronze medals? I think from a cost cutting perspective the at large community is not able to give an informed answer to this due to the lack of budget info.

If the question is do you think buttons will be just as effective at providing positive reinforcement to students as a medal would? I personally would argue no, but that's not the question the stated goal here is cost cutting.

Seems like a guided question without all the info Billfred.

[Madison]

I made a comment on the blogspot thread to similar effect, but I don't think it's fair to ask teams to weigh in on this without further explaining why the cost-reduction is necessary and what its impact will be.

There have been a number of changes in the past year that point to reduced costs for FIRST, but teams have yet to see those savings passed on the them; at least, outside of Michigan, perhaps.

[Jared Russell]

Originally Posted by RyanCahoon

A couple of reactions:
1) I think it depends on what type of pin; Bill's posting is the first I heard of this idea, so I'm not sure what FIRST has in mind. A very nice, stamped/die cut metal pin I think could still hold a lot of significance. I hope FIRST doesn't think it can get away with the mass produced plastic pins that the teams give out. This distinction alone I think would help to set them apart.

Originally Posted by Madison

I made a comment on the blogspot thread to similar effect, but I don't think it's fair to ask teams to weigh in on this without further explaining why the cost-reduction is necessary and what its impact will be.

There have been a number of changes in the past year that point to reduced costs for FIRST, but teams have yet to see those savings passed on the them; at least, outside of Michigan, perhaps.

Agree totally. FIRST needs to more elaborately explain what the new design would be, along with the real cost savings to teams. Only then can they expect meaningful feedback.

[ATannahill]

I have to ask, is FIRST trying to save us money or save money themselves? What if the money from sponser is dropping and prices increasing? Is this to save us money or prevent the cost from going up?

[Joe Matt]

Originally Posted by Madison

There have been a number of changes in the past year that point to reduced costs for FIRST, but teams have yet to see those savings passed on the them; at least, outside of Michigan, perhaps.

Couldn't the savings be no, or reduced, fee incresases year over year?

I'm as cynical and and jaded as they come with organizations and large group decision making with the deaf leading the blind et all, but I can't see how at least reducing the brozne metals they give wouldn't help. Make them optional, make it so only those who didn't win a silver or gold get them, make them smaller, whatever. Even when my team never won an award we found it hilarious FIRST would just give us bronze metals in a box, we probably have enough for a small regional in the back room.

I think the pins are a cooler idea, I'd rather show I was part of xxx Regional 20xx than a giant generic medal. But that's just me. Being jaded. And cynical. And liking pins.

[Madison]

Originally Posted by Joe Matt

Couldn't the savings be no, or reduced, fee incresases year over year?

That would be fine and, in such a case, I don't think it's too much to expect that FIRST or Bill added, "Savings here will offset escalating costs elsewhere." More detail would be nice, but it's certainly not necessary.

I'm long over receiving the participation medals, but they're not meant for me. My kids think they're pretty cool, though, and are pretty proud to wear them around sometimes. Medals capture the attention of others and they want to know why you've earned them. Pins, while perhaps more interesting to an insular FIRST culture, will not generate the same interest among outsiders. It's a bad change unless the cost saving is tremendously justified elsewhere.