[BB]: KOP info

[EricH]

http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2009...h-more-to.html

This is going to be interesting. Keep an eye or so on the blog today, as more info could be coming out at any time.

[Andy Brockway]

There is a comparison of what Veterans will receive versus rookies on Bill's Blog.

[quote[You can find information on the 2010 Veteran and Rookie Kits of Parts on our website. Follow the link from the site.[/quote]

http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/

[Jared Russell]

Very interesting. I wonder if someone can do some back of the envelope math to figure out the dollar value of the parts veterans will not receive this year?

[Josh Drake]

Also, what about those teams that were out of the picture last year, but are coming back this year. They get the rookie KOP as far as controller is concerned. Are there different categories beside just rookie and veteran?
A second year team may be at the greatest disadvantage.

[Fe_Will]

Why not just have an order list for all the parts and we pay the base cost for the regional. It seems like less and less of a savings to teams, but I'll wait to see the math on it.

I wonder if veteran teams can pay rookie cost and get the "good" kit...

[Jared Russell]

Originally Posted by DRAKE343

Also, what about those teams that were out of the picture last year, but are coming back this year. They get the rookie KOP as far as controller is concerned. Are there different categories beside just rookie and veteran?
A second year team may be at the greatest disadvantage.

Please refer to: http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/2009...ran-teams.html

Short answer: Veterans who didn't compete last year will get the rookie kit at the rookie price.

[Foster]

I'd be interested in seeing a better cost breakdown, but my quick calc shows that the cost is about $1400 difference between the rookie kit and the veteran kit. I'd just as soon buy the rookie kit and have all the parts that I need rather than trying to order them À la carte and get zocked on shipping from lots of vendors.

[Vikesrock]

It will be interesting to see how the cost accounting section of the manual is going to be worded now. There will almost certainly have to be some extra words in there to deal with the discrepancies between kits.

[Brandon Holley]

I'm not really sure how to feel about this, obviously less money is a good thing. But there are some components missing there that we would definitely have to order more of to supplement the lack of them in the kit which seems a little backwards to me.

[Greg Needel]

Originally Posted by Foster

Ibut my quick calc shows that the cost is about $1400 difference between the rookie kit and the veteran kit.

I got a similar number, What annoys me is how much they publicized "we are decreasing the cost of registration"

From my standpoint the cost to teams actually went UP. For a $1000 decrease in registration teams (who want to keep a functioning robot) will now have to shell out $1400. That seems like an increase in cost.

Not to mention that while I am thankful many grants exist and are the lifeline for many teams, they mostly cover registration. So for example any team who was banking on a nasa grant* for their initial registration will now have to come up with 1400 more cash to cover the differences.

*this is not a stab at the grant process just an illustration on how this will effect many teams. We all appreciate that the grants exist and should never bite the hand that feeds, or any of another 100 or so sayings that could apply to this situation.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Greg Needel

From my standpoint the cost to teams actually went UP. For a $1000 decrease in registration teams (who want to keep a functioning robot) will now have to shell out $1400. That seems like an increase in cost.

You only have to pay that extra $1400 if you choose not to pull last year's parts from last year's robot. For $1000 less than you paid for the 2009 registration, your veteran team will have everything that a 2010 rookie will. You just received some of it in the previous year's Kit of Parts instead of the current year's one.

[Travis Hoffman]

I got $2105. See attached.

For those who came up with the $1400-range estimates, where are the differences between your tally and mine?

My number also doesn't account for any shipping charges.

[Mark McLeod]

You didn't care about the two 20 cent standoffs?

Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman

My number also doesn't account for any shipping charges.

Just for yuks I took a look at the cost of shipping & handling for the 2 standoffs. Shipping them alone- as part of a larger order there wouldn't be any shipping cost, of course, but where's the fun in that?

For $.40 in parts, it'd cost $9.00 to have them shipped.

Okay, okay, local parts supply will have them too ....

P.S.
Remember too that plastic pneumatic fittings were not included in the KOP last year which I think makes it much harder on the rookies to even try pneumatics.

If you wanted to do a full accounting I noticed that there will be some additional costs for parts not mentioned, but that obviously won't be included in the kit either. Such as the pressure relief valve ($27.20) and the cRIO power connectors (not included BTW in our team's cRIO order).

[Madison]

I'm trying to leave a comment on Bill's Blog that is more substantive than, "you lie," but that's pretty well how I feel about how this "price reduction" has been handled.

FIRST really ought to own up to and explain the increased costs and challenges of operating in an economy that very nearly imploded or hire a better public relations person. They've done a poor job of making these changes seem like they're a good thing.

Is there anyone around here that can speak to how these changes will make the 2010 season significantly better for their team or region? I'm sure many, if not all, of the teams that are going to shell out the extra $2000 required for all of these omitted parts would HAPPILY pay an extra $1000 for registration and give the remaining $1000 to a team in need.

[IndySam]

Originally Posted by Madison

I'm trying to leave a comment on Bill's Blog that is more substantive than, "you lie," but that's pretty well how I feel about how this "price reduction" has been handled.

FIRST really ought to own up to and explain the increased costs and challenges of operating in an economy that very nearly imploded or hire a better public relations person. They've done a poor job of making these changes seem like they're a good thing.

Is there anyone around here that can speak to how these changes will make the 2010 season significantly better for their team or region? I'm sure many, if not all, of the teams that are going to shell out the extra $2000 required for all of these omitted parts would HAPPILY pay an extra $1000 for registration and give the remaining $1000 to a team in need.

I hate to use the word "lie" but the spin from FIRST might make us all very dizzy.

I understand cutting out something like the compressor (we have 8 and many teams never use them.) I understand (but don't like) not including a second cRio for veteran teams.

Cutting back on things like batteries and speed controllers is just wrong. These things are more like consumables that permanent control parts. How many of you are going to trust old batteries? How many of you have blown up speed controllers?

Don't make things more expensive for me and then tell me you cut my costs. That sounds way to much like congress.