Gracious Professionalism or NOT?

[Molten]

Originally Posted by Dan 1038

I don't see it any differently than a football team advertising that they won a championship or rivalry!

Let's avoid the "If its ok for football, its ok for me" logic. Though I believe the moral decision based on it is true. This logic seems to go against FIRST's changing the culture mentality.

Not trying to single Dan out, I've just seen this argument made on a few occasions and thought we can all use a reminder on occasion.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Molten

Let's avoid the "If its ok for football, its ok for me" logic. Though I believe the moral decision based on it is true. This logic seems to go against FIRST's changing the culture mentality.

Not trying to single Dan out, I've just seen this argument made on a few occasions and thought we can all use a reminder on occasion.

I dunno, it seems that FIRST has no problem with the sport concept. The direct connection to the relevance of sports is becoming stronger not weaker.

To add - we, ourselves, risk becoming negative and our passion distorted, if we don't remain somewhat open-minded and flexible in our thinking. Gracious Professionalism is as wonderful an attitude and applicable philosophy as it ever has been.

.02

Jane

[rtfgnow]

I see no problem with it. You won the awards fair and square. I do not feel arrogant with my signature.
You might be thought desperate if you are reaching back a few years to fill the spot.

[NYanks312]

Originally Posted by rtfgnow

I see no problem with it. You won the awards fair and square. I do not feel arrogant with my signature.
You might be thought desperate if you are reaching back a few years to fill the spot.

I agree with you, however signature and team's shirts/sweatshirts are different. Your just showing off here on Chief Delphi and not at the regional. However, I feel like you deserve the right to feel proud of your team's accomplishments!

[Dancin103]

Originally Posted by NYanks312

I agree with you, however signature and team's shirts/sweatshirts are different. Your just showing off here on Chief Delphi and not at the regional. However, I feel like you deserve the right to feel proud of your team's accomplishments!

I deffinately agree with you. It's something you feel proud of and if that's how and where you want to display that pride, then go for it! I know we don't have room on our shirts for much because we have a bunch of sponsors. I deffinately think that it's a great thing to be proud of your accomplishments and I say go for it.

Cass

[Madison]

Past performance is not indicative of future results.

[Dancin103]

Originally Posted by Madison

Past performance is not indicative of future results.

Agreed, you never know what could happen.

Cass

[Bharat Nain]

Originally Posted by Madison

Past performance is not indicative of future results.

I couldn't help but contest that statement in official CD-style. While this statement is sometimes true, there are many examples (1114, 111, 67, and the list goes on) of teams who continue to succeed year after year. They did something that was right and I think ALL teams have a lesson to learn from this. These teams have identified what they do "right" year after year in order to succeed. Of course, FIRST is very varied and not all teams are able to get all the "success factors" right every year. But, they can learn from things they did right.

Lessons can include:
"While driving the robot around at the end of build season, we figured that we can accomplish *these* tasks best by doing *so and so*. " Playing your robots strengths can work for you year after year.

"Having a solid storyboard and plan was a major factor in us winning the animation award". This factor can help increase your chance for success year after year.

"Booking hotel rooms early in the season for X regional helped us save X amount of dollars".

While I think your statement is sometimes correct, I would argue that past performance and results can sometimes be an indication of future results. It depends on whether you learn from it and continue to do what you need to do in order to succeed.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by Madison

Past performance is not indicative of future results.

Yes, but to imply that's a reason not to be proud of past accomplishments (or, more frankly, not use them to your advantage where you can, such as showing them off to sponsors) is even more ridiculous.

[ebarker]

as I browse the thread, this appears in the little quoter section at the top.

"Gracious Professionalism at its finest - Competing like CRAZY on the field, then working together like professionals off the field to make these events the best they can be for everyone involved. - Stu Bloom"

[Madison]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Yes, but to imply that's a reason not to be proud of past accomplishments (or, more frankly, not use them to your advantage where you can, such as showing them off to sponsors) is even more ridiculous.

There are differences between pride and hubris, I think, and feel personally that lauding your achievements to people that have not demonstrated any interest in them is distinctly the latter.

[bduddy]

Originally Posted by Madison

There are differences between pride and hubris, I think, and feel personally that lauding your achievements to people that have not demonstrated any interest in them is distinctly the latter.

What about teams (most of them) that hang their championship/chairman's banners in their pits? I don't think that really targets any different of an audience then T-shirts, and it seems to be generally accepted...
If you're thinking about students wearing the T-shirts in general, say at school, I don't see a problem with that. If I hadn't been in FIRST, I still would have been interested in learning that a team associated with my school had won something

[EricVanWyk]

Can you think of a situation where someone reading your shirt would think "They are proud of winning award X? What a bunch of jerks!" The only ones I can think of are along the lines of "Why is my sponsor logo smaller than / obscured by award X?"


When I read the title, I was about to knee jerk reply about "against GP", but saw that people more eloquent than I already handled it. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Madison

Past performance is not indicative of future results.

I'm going to have to jump on this bandwagon, hopefully it isn't full yet.

I really hate to nitpick, but "indicative" is a poor choice for a word in that sentence. Perhaps you intended "is not a guarantee of" instead? "Indicative" is loose, like suggestion: Today's weather is a pretty good indicator for tomorrow's weather, but it is by no means perfect. To Dancin, although we can not predict the future with certainty, throwing away data is counterproductive. Engineers make best-faith decisions everyday in the face of these uncertainties.

The reason I push this point is that past performance truly is a valuable indicator of future results, and more importantly, that knowledge of past performance can effect* future results. It can help with sponsors, help freshman feel the "We Can Do It" vibe, etc.






* go-go-gadget nounform-effect!

[Mr. Van]

I'll make a few comments on the several subjects that have come up here. Please forgive my long reply.

FIRST (and other competitive robotics programs) are built on the sport model. We compete. We award the best competitors. We celebrate human accomplishments in something that in and of itself produces nothing. The preparation for competition and the actual tournament provides competitors (and spectators to some extent) a way to improve themselves. This personal growth is the product of all sport.

The primary difference between sport as it is often practiced and FIRST is that sometimes sport takes war as it's model ("crush your opponent!") while most engineering competitions have embraced Dr. Flower's Gracious Professionalism as their model for competition.

We need to put both of these ideals together. FRC is competitive robotics, not a robotics exhibition. We celebrate our accomplishments and compete for that recognition.

I'm all in favor of celebrating our accomplishments! List those awards.

A list of awards and the year you won them gives new team members a sense of pride - they are part of the team that has achieved to that level. (I remember when I was rowing in college, there was a great photo on the boathouse wall of the Henley '54 & '55 crews from the one time the school had traveled to England and won the most prestigious collegiate rowing event in the world. Every time I walked passed it, I felt motivated by the accomplishments of that crew - even though it happened over 10 years before I was born.)

I take pride in the accomplishments of my team, and of all the awards that we have received, I count the Johnson & Johnson Gracious Professionalism award the most important. That we have received this award 7 times in the past 7 years tells everyone what kind of team we are. It is also hopefully an indication of what kind of team we will continue to be.

-Joseph Vanderway
Coach, Robodox