pic: Chassis Idea

[Rion Atkinson]

loading photo ...

[sgreco]

Looks really good!


Nice Work!

A couple suggestions:

You could definitely get away with 1/16 inch wall tube on the inner parts of the frame to save some weight.

I'm assuming you're welding the extrusion. The other thing is that my team found is if you cut the edges of the square tube extrusion to 45 degree angles where they meet at the corners, it is more structally sound.

Are those wheels the ones you posted before?

Looks really nice, the rendering makes it look very appealing.

[McGurky]

I see you have really been hitting up the CAD software recently! Awesome work!

[jamie_1930]

Originally Posted by Formerly Famous

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My thoughts would be if you make it so that you can slide the battery in through the larger holes on the front (or back), and (this is something 190 did a while back) since you have a six wheel base I suggest moving the middle wheel down from the outer wheels. This is a common base that will tilt when you move allowing for a smaller turning radius and better maneuverability. This sometimes creates to much maneuverability or to little, depending on your needs. So in order to give yourself more, or less, maneuverability you can put high friction wheels in the middle and back sections and have the last two be omni wheels. This way if your driving one way you have high maneuver ability, while driving the opposite direction will allow you to stay more stable and go forward straighter for longer amounts of time without stray.
----------------------------------------
| High Friction High Friction |
| |
| High Friction High Friction |
| |
| Omni Omni |
-----------------------------------------

[Jared Russell]

Very nice work! This is about as simple a box frame chassis as I've seen, and it is definitely a good start towards a top notch final design.

Some things to think about when designing a chassis (obviously some of these are dependent on the game and rules):

• How will we ensure that our chains will be properly tensioned?
• How we will adjust the drop of the center wheel (if any)?
• How will we mount our bumpers?
• How will we fix X when it fails? X = wheels, sprockets, chain, gearbox, motor, speed controller, cable, frame members, welds, etc. (and how long would such a repair take?)
• What sorts of COTS and custom made spare parts will we want to bring to competition with this drive base?
• Do we have easy access to all bolt heads, nuts, rivets, etc., for tightening or loosening?
• If something must go to make weight, where will we start?
• What is the center of gravity, and how can we move it to where we want it to be?
• How long will it take to build this once build season starts?
• How much does it cost? Can we lower the cost somehow?
• What are the wiring paths?
• Where can we put the battery?
• How will we lift this thing?

Hope this helps!

My only two questions/comments about your particular chassis are (1) if there is a ramp to climb, you will probably want to move your wheels further to the front and rear of the frame and (2) how do you plan on supporting the plywood base in the middle?

[Rion Atkinson]

Originally Posted by sgreco

Looks really good!


Nice Work!

A couple suggestions:

You could definitely get away with 1/16 inch wall tube on the inner parts of the frame to save some weight.

I'm assuming you're welding the extrusion. The other thing is that my team found is if you cut the edges of the square tube extrusion to 45 degree angles where they meet at the corners, it is more structally sound.

Are those wheels the ones you posted before?

Looks really nice, the rendering makes it look very appealing.

Thank you for the weight saving tip! I have been going through all of my options. I wasn't sure if that would be safe.

We are hoping to be able to weld it. Money and knowledge may hinder that though. If we can not then we will be creating brackets out of 1/16" Aluminum and riveting it together.

The wheels are a more recent version of what I posted. A picture of them can be found here. If you go over one you can see it with the gear. (I haven't put the bolts in yet. I am about to do that when I have finished this post.)

Thank you for all of your help.

Originally Posted by jamie_1930

My thoughts would be if you make it so that you can slide the battery in through the larger holes on the front (or back), and (this is something 190 did a while back) since you have a six wheel base I suggest moving the middle wheel down from the outer wheels. This is a common base that will tilt when you move allowing for a smaller turning radius and better maneuverability. This sometimes creates to much maneuverability or to little, depending on your needs. So in order to give yourself more, or less, maneuverability you can put high friction wheels in the middle and back sections and have the last two be omni wheels. This way if your driving one way you have high maneuver ability, while driving the opposite direction will allow you to stay more stable and go forward straighter for longer amounts of time without stray.
----------------------------------------
| High Friction High Friction |
| |
| High Friction High Friction |
| |
| Omni Omni |
-----------------------------------------

I currently have a center drop of 1/16. I apologize for not mentioning that in my description.

Thank you for the tips on maneuverability.

Originally Posted by Jared341

Very nice work! This is about as simple a box frame chassis as I've seen, and it is definitely a good start towards a top notch final design.

Some things to think about when designing a chassis (obviously some of these are dependent on the game and rules):

• How will we ensure that our chains will be properly tensioned?
• How we will adjust the drop of the center wheel (if any)?
• How will we mount our bumpers?
• How will we fix X when it fails? X = wheels, sprockets, chain, gearbox, motor, speed controller, cable, frame members, welds, etc. (and how long would such a repair take?)
• What sorts of COTS and custom made spare parts will we want to bring to competition with this drive base?
• Do we have easy access to all bolt heads, nuts, rivets, etc., for tightening or loosening?
• If something must go to make weight, where will we start?
• What is the center of gravity, and how can we move it to where we want it to be?
• How long will it take to build this once build season starts?
• How much does it cost? Can we lower the cost somehow?
• What are the wiring paths?
• Where can we put the battery?

Hope this helps!

My only two questions/comments about your particular chassis are (1) if there is a ramp to climb, you will probably want to move your wheels further to the front and rear of the frame and (2) how do you plan on supporting the plywood base in the middle?

Thank you for that list. I have only considered a few of them, and I will definitely be keeping all of that in mind as I perfect this design.

That is a good point, I had not thought about any ramps. The nice thing is that no design changes will need to be made; just the location of the wheels.

I am considering that at the moment. I have thought about mounting an aluminum cross beam in there. Do you have any suggestions?

-Rion

[Akash Rastogi]

Looks good.

I'm wondering...did you want the wheels on dead axles or live?

[Rion Atkinson]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

Looks good.

I'm wondering...did you want the wheels on dead axles or live?

(Starts editing the OP.)

The wheels are on live axles. Sorry about that.

-Rion

[Akash Rastogi]

Hopefully someone with more experience with 6wd can post here (I've never built a live axle system before) but what is the purpose of having a live axle system? To my understanding, the occasion when you use a live system is when the gearbox is directly driving either the center wheel (live) or a corner wheel but then the other two wheels are on dead axles.

Someone want to clarify this for me?

[Madison]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

Hopefully someone with more experience with 6wd can post here (I've never built a live axle system before) but what is the purpose of having a live axle system? To my understanding, the occasion when you use a live system is when the gearbox is directly driving either the center wheel (live) or a corner wheel but then the other two wheels are on dead axles.

Someone want to clarify this for me?

As far as I can tell, there is no particularly compelling reason for this to use live axles.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Madison

As far as I can tell, there is no particularly compelling reason for this to use live axles.

I meant to ask the question in general too. Is there less loss of power when using live axles or something? What is the benefit, if any?

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

I meant to ask the question in general too. Is there less loss of power when using live axles or something? What is the benefit, if any?

The benefit of live axles comes from being able to use the axle as the transmission of power to the wheel. As opposed to bolting the sprocket directly to the wheel and placing bearings in the wheel, the live axle setup transmits power from the sprocket through the axle to the wheel.

Some setups may only function with a live axle setup. However given the choice between dead or live axle....I use dead axle wherever and whenever I can.

Art- If your supporting the shaft on both sides anyways (assuming a wheel your using can have a bolt pattern), then bolting each end of the shaft in place is even more simple IMO, instead of having to turn down the ends of the shafts.

-Brando

[artdutra04]

Originally Posted by Brandon Holley

Art- If your supporting the shaft on both sides anyways (assuming a wheel your using can have a bolt pattern), then bolting each end of the shaft in place is even more simple IMO, instead of having to turn down the ends of the shafts.

Turning down the ends of shafts on a lathe takes one tool.

Drilling and tapping the ends takes three: a center drill, the drill bit, then the tap.

On a manual lathe, it's faster to turn the ends down.

[Jared Russell]

I will sum up my experiences with live and dead axles below.

Live axles are useful because:

• You can drive them from any point on the shaft (e.g. West Coast Drive where there is a bearing block between the driving sprocket and the wheel).
• The keyed/hex shaft becomes a "universal" interface for attaching wheels, bearings, sprockets, gears, brakes, encoders, etc. As long as your piece has an (ex.) 1/2" keyed bore, it will rotate along with everything else on the shaft. With a dead axle, you must attach pieces to each other directly, and not all wheel and sprocket combinations play nice in this regard.

Dead axles are useful because:

• You are minimizing the rotational mass of the wheel assembly and therefore maximizing efficiency since the shaft itself doesn't need to spin. Unless you have a truly massive axle or bad bearings/alignment, however, we're probably not talking a huge difference.
• In the cantilevered case, you are minimizing torsional loads on ball bearings with dead axles (since the bearings are still centered on the axis of rotation no matter what the deflection of the shaft).
• The closer together two bearings are, the easier it is to have them stay aligned. In a dead axle setup with two bearings in a single wheel, alignment is trivial. Live axle systems that support both ends of the shaft can get out of alignment more easily.

Did I miss anything?

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by artdutra04

Turning down the ends of shafts on a lathe takes one tool.

Drilling and tapping the ends takes three: a center drill, the drill bit, then the tap.

On a manual lathe, it's faster to turn the ends down.

# of tools is kind of an unfair comparison here. Drilling the ends of a piece of stock is probably the simplest operation you can do on a manual lathe. No zeroing (assuming your going to just do a rough estimate of depth because your tapping the hole anyway) and no measuring of the piece to ensure correct diameter.

My guess is that the lathe operations would take close to the same amount of time for both kinds of axle, including the tool change for the drill. The tapping will cause the dead axle to take a longer amount of time, but we're talking about a matter of minutes which I do not feel is enough to justify changing a design from dead to live. There are a ton of other considerations obviously, but I just wanted to point that out.

-Brando