Effectiveness of Kicking vs. Pushing

[KGood]

Keep in mind the danger of the "legal" holding, which is the ball must remain in contact with the floor. If you attempt to go over a bump while holding the ball, it is very likely at one point the ball will leave contact with the floor and you will be penalized.

[Nurnburger]

Originally Posted by ssa3512

Nurnburger, I don't you understood what I was saying. I was talking about two areas. There is the area between the outside of the bumper and the outside of the frame perimeter (~3.5 inches) and an area inside the frame perimeter (up to 3 inches) for a total of ~6.5 inches of penetration of the ball beneath the bumper.

I was referring the concave control object you proposed under the bumper, which would be illegal.

I agree that it's possible to have issues hitting your bumpers if you try to pop the ball up. I also have noticed in our testing that lofting the ball at an angle high enough to hit the bumpers would be totally impractical, so I don't think it will prevent bots from kicking the ball over the bumps.

[Mtg Ruler]

You couldnt add the section under the bumper because that piece would be an extension of your frame, and then the bumpers would have to go on the ends of that. And its been my experience that FRC likes their bumpers the way its in the manual without any modifications/concave sections

anyway, its probably a bit inefficient to try to take the balls over the bumps with you, at least take them through the tunnels

i havent thought much about a kicking mechanism all that much, but my main philosophy in this is that most of the problems have already been solved, so its just a matter of thinking about where the solution could be found. In this case, i bet soccer players could tell you the best ways to kick balls different areas

[kjolana1124]

I think it's really going to come down to the physics of it all. If you can get a really accurate kicker that can kick from all three zones, that's great. But at the same time, the farther away you are the harder it will be to get accurate. Also, the video did say that if you kick really hard up close it won't go on. So if a team has a really strong kicker and goes for the "forward" position, it may not be as effective as something that's more like a pusher.

I feel this game more than ever will force teams to have to (either intentionally or not), build robots geared for a specific zone. A strong kicker could be good, so long as teams don't over or undershoot.

[DiehardCybercard]

Originally Posted by Locke64

I think a more important question to as would be angled kicks or horizontal kicks(rolls)?
I'd imagine rolling would be more accurate and easier to get into the goals, but it may have trouble with the bumps where angled kicks could clear them easily.

rolls! a good point. as with soccer, and golf, and many other sports with balls, SPIN has a great deal of influence on behavior of said balls. SPIN aught to be an item teams look into if they plan to kick and or roll.

[DiehardCybercard]

Originally Posted by Robotbug

I think that kicking would be more popular because by pushing you have to move very close to the goal, and there is always that chance that pushing would not get it into the goal.

So kicking for the win. =]

i agree. Ill use an example from lunacy to back up kickers. Our robot had a conveyor belt to pick up empty cells and deliver them to the fueling stations. even though we were right there sometimes when we ran the conveyor we still missed. When you only have so man seconds to complete a task its imperative to do ti right the first time, and quickly. when you get down to it the time spent pushing seems to me a great deal more than kicking. if you have a kicker and miss you can easily get another ball and kick from that new location, where as with a pusher you have to drive all the way back to the goal.

Of course I could go to the boiler maker regional and see a team with the most beastly pusher and they win the whole thing, but I do not see that as likely.

[Ram Raman]

Hi i am a team member from team 2876 the devil bots!

i was just wondering what you guys would say about a pusher/ short range kicker... would it be better just not to have a pusher at all?

[TimelessFate]

A pusher follows the KISS policy very well. If you guys want something simple and easy to make, a pusher is excellent.

(K.I.S.S: Keep it smart and simple)

[bhsrobotics1671]

does anyone have any design ideas for a kicker?

[kapolavery]

I think pushing/punching is the closest thing you will get to being able to herd the ball without actually herding; while kicking is sorta like the shooters of last year game, one at a time...that's just my opinion..

[CindyLouWho]

When it comes to the percentage of who will do what type of shooter, it will most likely be pretty even. Kickers would be more beneficial to people whose strategy would be to station themselves in their opponents section, while pushing would be the way to go for most people who are focused on moving the soccer balls and scoring from a closer distance. Weight is also an important factor, considering that a kicker has more weight vs a pusher.

[kapolavery]

Or what about like..in pin ball..the swinging parts as a mechanism to hit the balls..

[Shawyan]

It is my understanding that it is impossible with loads of top spin, to be able to hit the ball straight at the bump and for it to go over. (I Tried it full strength with my foot and the ball just went straight up. that is a 45 degree angle for you).

Thus, being able to kick the ball at an angle will b very important for getting the ball out of the middle. Please note, if the ball hits anywhere before the flat of the bump, it will come back.

Now, making a kicker than is angled and can also change into a pusher by becoming perpendicular to the floor..... that is a lot of moving parts, and potential problems that I do not see many teams (including ours) attempting. Also, the kicker's height could be changed, allowing for contact to be at a higher point, losing power but allowing the ball to go straight.

My $0.02