The ultimate game breaker bot.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Cyberphil

The problem with this is that the distance between the two towers is much longer than that. The field is split into three 18' sections. The robot can only be 90" tall in the finale config. How can you possibly reach that distance?

In fact, the maximum distance your robot COULD extend (assuming it grabs both side poles on the exact edge of the robot, without even considering bumpers) is 84 inches. 7 feet out. Looking at how the balls roll out of the chute, the opponent's ball lands at about a quarter way into the zone, 4 more feet away from where you need to be. In fact, your robot may be in such a position where it stops the ball from bouncing into your own zone.

[acidrain2012]

as much as I hate to be the party pooper here...
I don't think that would win any Gracious Professionalism or Coopertition awards. It defeats the purpose of actual competition during a match... Your decision.

[Rick Wagner]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

In fact, the maximum distance your robot COULD extend (assuming it grabs both side poles on the exact edge of the robot, without even considering bumpers) is 84 inches. 7 feet out. Looking at how the balls roll out of the chute, the opponent's ball lands at about a quarter way into the zone, 4 more feet away from where you need to be. In fact, your robot may be in such a position where it stops the ball from bouncing into your own zone.

It seems to me that balls rolling off the chute will be going fast enough to completely miss a robot hanging from either tower. I think the GDC intended allowing the pre-FINALE tower-touch-and-hang in order to enable slow-hoisting robots to have enough time to get up past the platform.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Rick Wagner

It seems to me that balls rolling off the chute will be going fast enough to completely miss a robot hanging from either tower. I think the GDC intended allowing the pre-FINALE tower-touch-and-hang in order to enable slow-hoisting robots to have enough time to get up past the platform.

As I don't have a full size field at my house (YET!), I was going off of the ball return video from Kickoff (1:45 in). It looks like the second or third bounce could hit the ramp robot and bounce back.

[CallieJ]

I'm not sure if someone already mentioned this (probably), but rule <G44> says that robots cannot carry a ball, which is defined as controlling the direction and motion of a ball if the ball is not in contact with the field. Also, rule <G45> says that robots can't control a ball with a mechanism above the bumper zone.

It's a very good idea, and I know some people on my team and on the team at my school (192) came up with it as well, but I think they really want us to play "soccer".

[EricH]

Originally Posted by CallieJ

I'm not sure if someone already mentioned this (probably), but rule <G44> says that robots cannot carry a ball, which is defined as controlling the direction and motion of a ball if the ball is not in contact with the field. Also, rule <G45> says that robots can't control a ball with a mechanism above the bumper zone.

Psst... <G45> specifies an active mechanism. If it didn't, we'd all be in trouble if we had the misfortune to be under the ball return.

The rule you really wanted to refer to was <R19> as added to in Update #2. Simply put, no more than 3" of the ball can enter anything designed to deflect balls in a controlled manner if it's above the bumper zone.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Update #2:

<R19> ROBOTS must be designed so that in normal operation BALLS cannot extend more than 3 inches inside:
a) the FRAME PERIMETER below the level of the bumper zone (see figure 8-5)
b) a MECHANISM or feature designed to deflect balls in a controlled manner that is above the level of the BUMPER ZONE

This certainly puts a kink in these plans. The added difficulty depends on if they're making it:
a) 3 inches from a vertical right prism containing all the parts of the mechanism (ie, if you're looking down at it, is it 3 inches past the edge of the mechanism)
b) 3 inches inside some sort of other projection of the mechanism. Like if you had a slide with 2" walls at a 45deg tilt. Wouldn't pass the first test, would pass this one.

[bduddy]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

Update #2:

This certainly puts a kink in these plans. The added difficulty depends on if they're making it:
a) 3 inches from a vertical right prism containing all the parts of the mechanism (ie, if you're looking down at it, is it 3 inches past the edge of the mechanism)
b) 3 inches inside some sort of other projection of the mechanism. Like if you had a slide with 2" walls at a 45deg tilt. Wouldn't pass the first test, would pass this one.

As currently written, I don't see anything referring to any kind of projection... so any kind of ramp, or deflector, should be legal. I'm not entirely sure what "inside" is defined to be in that new rule, actually. I fear this update has asked more questions than it has answered...

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by bduddy

As currently written, I don't see anything referring to any kind of projection... so any kind of ramp, or deflector, should be legal. I'm not entirely sure what "inside" is defined to be in that new rule, actually. I fear this update has asked more questions than it has answered...

The update is clear. Read it and re-read it. The ball cannot extend 3" into any MECHANISM above the bumper zone.

[ThirteenOfTwo]

And since the mechanism couldn't have been active, it would have redirected balls in only one direction. A well placed defender with a kicker would make mincemeat of this, even if <R19> didn't ban it.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by ThirteenOfTwo

And since the mechanism couldn't have been active, it would have redirected balls in only one direction. A well placed defender with a kicker would make mincemeat of this, even if <R19> didn't ban it.

At which point, the robot up top changes the angle of the redirecter between balls coming down. See Team Update #2's added note to <G45>.

And it is possible to comply with <R19> and still direct the balls in the general direction you want them to go.

[dodar]

So does this mean if you build protector plates for say your electronics and they are angled, when a ball hits your robot and rolls off in another direction would you get a penalty or not cause it was accidental

[pbhead]

as long as the ball doesnt find its way 3 inchs past your plates... no.

so... my origional post still stands... and... as long as you dont activate your servo when a ball is in contact with the robot... you can use a powered mechanizem to direct the ball. (just make sure you dont move your ball director when a ball is touching it!)

[Racer26]

Agree. Changes to G45/R19 as in Team Update #2 have asked more questions than they've answered. It seems that they dont want us to be intentionally deflecting balls in a particular direction, but consider the following scenario:

if i design my holonomic drive bot with a slanted top, and NEVER rotate my robot, instead opting to only translate it, ball hits the slanted top... am i intentionally diverting the ball in the correct direction?

[Woody1458]

Im interested in the interaction between this idea and the 3 inch rule.