Withholding limits and GP

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Bochek

GO GDC!!! another 5 weeks of build season!

Why do I suspect that Waterloo will be weighing all incoming parts?

[Racer26]

I know Tristan was the Head Inspector there last year, and he frequents these forums... perhaps he'll give an indication of that, and no doubt he'll be watching 2200 especially.

[3286]

An interesting thread, and on that is open to many interpretations. Imho, I think that when these things are done perhaps a more in depth look at the existing rules or a revision that is a bit more explicit would be very helpful. I think its safe to say there are enough areas where the rules can be interpreted in more than one way and no doubt some cases where they may actually conflict, or at least seem to. Again, its all in the interpretation. Thankfully I come from an aerospace and aviation background where the FAA and only the FAA can issue, interpret and make decisions based on their rules and how everyone else interprets them. Makes me think of their motto, " We're not happy until you're not happy"

Anyway, all I know is I would give real cash to be able to hold back the Crio and be able to do more programming, whether thats against the GP or whether its a cheat is wide open but Ill just be honest about it. Come next Tuesday, Ill make the decision then.

Good luck everyone....remember, sleep is an option!

Mike

[Racer26]

Originally Posted by 3286

Anyway, all I know is I would give real cash to be able to hold back the Crio and be able to do more programming, whether thats against the GP or whether its a cheat is wide open but Ill just be honest about it. Come next Tuesday, Ill make the decision then.

Good luck everyone....remember, sleep is an option!

Mike

This is not only not against GP, and not a cheat, its EXPLICITLY allowed by the rules.

[3286]

Well thats the best thing Ive heard all day, and I may actually sleep better tonight.....cept for the dreams where all those little VI's gang up on me and beat me.

Mike

[Racer26]

Originally Posted by 3286

Well thats the best thing Ive heard all day, and I may actually sleep better tonight.....cept for the dreams where all those little VI's gang up on me and beat me.

Mike

Bear in mind, though, that connecting all the little PWM connectors to the right ports can be fiddly and isnt necessarily the thing you want to be frantically doing on thursday morning at your regional.

[Steve W]

According to Richard Yasui the FIRST Robotics Administrator for TDSB, he made a call to FIRST who said that the robot must be shipped. I am totally confused now. Yes there is a 65 lb withholding of fabricated parts but the rules state

"<R26> During the Build Season: During the period between the Kick-off and the ROBOT shipment deadline, teams are to design and fabricate all the COMPONENTS and MECHANISMS required to complete their ROBOT. They are encouraged to use all the materials, sources and resources available to them that are in compliance with the rules of the 2010 FRC. There is no limit to the amount of time that may be put into this effort, other than via the realities of the calendar. When the ROBOT shipment deadline arrives, all work on the ROBOT must cease and the ROBOT must be placed in a “hands-off” condition. The entire ROBOT (including all FABRICATED ITEMS intended for use during the competition in alternative configurations of the ROBOT) must be crated or bagged (as appropriate for your event), and out of team hands by the shipment deadline specified in Section 4 (with the exception of the items covered by the WITHHOLDING ALLOWANCE).

The red is my highlight. If all work on the robot must cease then how can one withold the whole robot?

[seannoseworthy]

Originally Posted by Steve W

According to Richard Yasui the FIRST Robotics Administrator for TDSB, he made a call to FIRST who said that the robot must be shipped. I am totally confused now. Yes there is a 65 lb withholding of fabricated parts but the rules state

"<R26> During the Build Season: During the period between the Kick-off and the ROBOT shipment deadline, teams are to design and fabricate all the COMPONENTS and MECHANISMS required to complete their ROBOT. They are encouraged to use all the materials, sources and resources available to them that are in compliance with the rules of the 2010 FRC. There is no limit to the amount of time that may be put into this effort, other than via the realities of the calendar. When the ROBOT shipment deadline arrives, all work on the ROBOT must cease and the ROBOT must be placed in a “hands-off” condition. The entire ROBOT (including all FABRICATED ITEMS intended for use during the competition in alternative configurations of the ROBOT) must be crated or bagged (as appropriate for your event), and out of team hands by the shipment deadline specified in Section 4 (with the exception of the items covered by the WITHHOLDING ALLOWANCE).

The red is my highlight. If all work on the robot must cease then how can one withold the whole robot?

The last line of <R26> is the important part. It says "With the exception of the items covered by the WITHHOLDING ALLOWANCE" The robot is cover in the withholding allowance as outlined in this post. The game design committee stated that "There are no requirements on what is included or excluded from the WITHHOLDING ALLOWANCE. Please see Team Update 11 for added clarification." Remember that the GDC rules are the only rules that apply.

[Mike Betts]

Originally Posted by seannoseworthy

... Remember that the GDC rules are the only rules that apply.

Sean,

I do not disagree with your conclusion. I wanted to point out that the Game Manual is all that applies unconditionally. The updates and Q&A, if they change the manual are always reflected in the manual in it's next revision.

At least, that's the theory.

Regards,

Mike

[PAR_WIG1350]

It seems like people DON'T want to be able to continue to work on their robots, judging by some of their posts.
Are they crazy!!!!!

[EricH]

Originally Posted by PAR_WIG1350

It seems like people DON'T want to be able to continue to work on their robots, judging by some of their posts.
Are they crazy!!!!!

No. 6 weeks is long enough to be crazy. Some of us happen to like our sanity whenever we aren't building robots.

[Bochek]

I just recieved an email from our team's Main contact.

He quotes an email he claims he received from FIRST

2. 65 Pound Holdback

You should all know about the 65 pound holdback that you can keep and work on until the competition. If you haven't seen this, make sure you read the modification to the rules in The Robot document or in one of the updates.

*** Please note that you are only to hold back subsystems and parts that can be added to your robot. NOT the main part of your robot.

Has any other team recieved this email? i could not find it on the FIRST site or in any team email blast or team update. It is also in direct conflict to the GDC responses.

- Bochek

[Mike Betts]

Originally Posted by Bochek

I just recieved an email from our team's Main contact.

He quotes an email he claims he received from FIRST



Has any other team recieved this email? i could not find it on the FIRST site or in any team email blast or team update. It is also in direct conflict to the GDC responses.

- Bochek

I agree. This sounds very wrong.

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by Bochek

I just recieved an email from our team's Main contact.

He quotes an email he claims he received from FIRST



Has any other team recieved this email? i could not find it on the FIRST site or in any team email blast or team update. It is also in direct conflict to the GDC responses.

- Bochek

We received the same email from our Regional Director, at 2:12 PM.

[Bochek]

Originally Posted by Karthik

We received the same email from our Regional Director, at 2:12 PM.

Thank you Karthik! Do you feel that this is something i should be brining up to the GDC?