Go to Post We're basically using a two step process: 1. Smoke 2. Mirrors - Tom Bottiglieri [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Electrical
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 15-02-2010, 22:29
Rafael Vasquez Rafael Vasquez is offline
Registered User
FRC #1245
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Louisville
Posts: 10
Rafael Vasquez is an unknown quantity at this point
Static Buildup

For maneuverability purposes, the back two wheels on our robot are made from the same material that we were required to use last year for the wheels. Unfortunately, this gives us the same problem with static build up running on carpet. Last year we were able to use a linolium tiled room for practice, but this year we must use carpet as that will be the competition surface.

We're pretty sure that static buildup has fried one of our jaguars, and we're worried about the rest and especially our cRIO. Does anyone have any suggestions for eliminating the charge?

Our ideas so far:
dragging some chain or rope to transfer it to the ground (just for testing, not for competition)

hooking up a wire from the frame to the ground terminal on the battery (is this legal?)
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 15-02-2010, 22:33
Phoenix Spud's Avatar
Phoenix Spud Phoenix Spud is offline
Everyone. Everywhere.
FRC #3132 (Thunder Down Under)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 702
Phoenix Spud has a reputation beyond reputePhoenix Spud has a reputation beyond reputePhoenix Spud has a reputation beyond reputePhoenix Spud has a reputation beyond reputePhoenix Spud has a reputation beyond reputePhoenix Spud has a reputation beyond reputePhoenix Spud has a reputation beyond reputePhoenix Spud has a reputation beyond reputePhoenix Spud has a reputation beyond reputePhoenix Spud has a reputation beyond reputePhoenix Spud has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Static Buildup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafael Vasquez View Post
For maneuverability purposes, the back two wheels on our robot are made from the same material that we were required to use last year for the wheels. Unfortunately, this gives us the same problem with static build up running on carpet. Last year we were able to use a linolium tiled room for practice, but this year we must use carpet as that will be the competition surface.

We're pretty sure that static buildup has fried one of our jaguars, and we're worried about the rest and especially our cRIO. Does anyone have any suggestions for eliminating the charge?

Our ideas so far:
dragging some chain or rope to transfer it to the ground (just for testing, not for competition)

hooking up a wire from the frame to the ground terminal on the battery (is this legal?)
It is illegal to ground your frame. (In fact, this is a big problem since the casing on the cRIO and camera are both grounded. You should use a multi meter to make sure this isn't happening.)

Last year there were a lot of team that had this problem. My team even saw static sparking it was so bad!!! I would recommend looking at threads from last year. One of the ideas that came up was having a wire running from the frame to the ground this should keep the robot from having a static charge.

Hope that helps!
__________________
Sarah Heimlich
Outreach Mentor | Business Mentor
FIRST® TEAM 3132
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 15-02-2010, 22:36
scottydoh scottydoh is offline
CAD, Mechanical, Alumni, Mentor
AKA: Scott
FRC #0810 (Mechanical Bulls)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Smithtown, Long Island, NY
Posts: 236
scottydoh is a name known to allscottydoh is a name known to allscottydoh is a name known to allscottydoh is a name known to allscottydoh is a name known to allscottydoh is a name known to all
Send a message via AIM to scottydoh Send a message via Yahoo to scottydoh
Re: Static Buildup

EDIT: Phoenix beat me to it, but heres the rule quote;

Quote:
<R43> All wiring and electrical devices, including all control system components, shall be electrically isolated from the ROBOT frame. The ROBOT frame must not be used to carry electrical current (e.g. this is necessary due to polarity reversals that occur under certain operating conditions such as during motor direction reversals).
R43 would make your last idea a no go.

As for the other stuff, Im not really sure. Probably best to ask in the Q&A.
__________________
www.smithtownrobotics.com
Robot Inspector (SBPLI 2011)
2011 Johnson & Johnson Gracious Professionalism (NYC) Judges Award (SBPLI)
2009 Xerox Creativity (SBPLI)
Mechanical Bulls; Student Leader 2006-2008, Mentor 2009-Present
New York Institute of Technology - Architecture '13 | Design Portfolio:www.coroflot.com/sdifiore

Last edited by scottydoh : 15-02-2010 at 22:38. Reason: Phoenix beat me to it.
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 15-02-2010, 23:27
Unsung FIRST Hero
Al Skierkiewicz Al Skierkiewicz is offline
Broadcast Eng/Chief Robot Inspector
AKA: Big Al WFFA 2005
FRC #0111 (WildStang)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Wheeling, IL
Posts: 10,766
Al Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Static Buildup

Rafael,
The source of the static is the interaction between the wheel and the carpet. The accumulated charge is then transferred to the metallic parts of your robot through several different paths. Most notably from the wheels to adjacent parts and to a lesser degree from the robot moving across the field. In past years, teams have been allowed to attach a drag wire to the robot frame as long as it did not produce an entanglement hazard for other teams. This was thought to help drain the accumulated charge or at least to place the robot and the carpet at a lower potential difference. There is nothing this year that allows this practice so ask the Q&A. Since the battery does not present a path to drain the charge, connecting the frame to the battery does nothing for static. This connection does produce a condition where contact with another robot's electrical system can cause voltages to occur that exceed the rating of some electrical components and therefore can cause significant damage.
__________________
Good Luck All. Learn something new, everyday!
Al
WB9UVJ
www.wildstang.org
________________________
Storming the Tower since 1996.
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 15-02-2010, 23:33
Unsung FIRST Hero
Mike Betts Mike Betts is offline
Electrical Engineer
no team
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Rookie Year: 1995
Location: Homosassa, FL
Posts: 1,442
Mike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Static Buildup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz View Post
...In past years, teams have been allowed to attach a drag wire to the robot frame as long as it did not produce an entanglement hazard for other teams. This was thought to help drain the accumulated charge or at least to place the robot and the carpet at a lower potential difference. There is nothing this year that allows this practice...
Al,

In my opinion, there is no rule which prohibits this.

Regards,

Mike
__________________
Mike Betts

Alumnus, Team 3518, Panthrobots, 2011
Alumnus, Team 177, Bobcat Robotics, 1995 - 2010
LRI, Connecticut Regional, 2007-2010
LRI, WPI Regional, 2009 - 2010
RI, South Florida Regional, 2012 - 2013

As easy as 355/113...
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 15-02-2010, 23:41
Stealth Stealth is offline
Registered User
FRC #2073
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Elk Grove
Posts: 17
Stealth is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Static Buildup

We had this same issue and we solved it with a two inch length of chain attached to our frame. It did the trick and it has no way of going outside our perimeter and always stays in contact with the ground.
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 15-02-2010, 23:51
Unsung FIRST Hero
Al Skierkiewicz Al Skierkiewicz is offline
Broadcast Eng/Chief Robot Inspector
AKA: Big Al WFFA 2005
FRC #0111 (WildStang)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Wheeling, IL
Posts: 10,766
Al Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Static Buildup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Betts View Post
Al,

In my opinion, there is no rule which prohibits this.

Regards,

Mike
Mike,
There are a variety of reasons that the GDC might rule against this. I for one do not second guess their decisions.
__________________
Good Luck All. Learn something new, everyday!
Al
WB9UVJ
www.wildstang.org
________________________
Storming the Tower since 1996.
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Static warning!!! Phoenix Spud Technical Discussion 21 12-02-2009 10:22
Static Cling?? orelinde Electrical 17 27-02-2006 17:33
Static Variables amateurrobotguy Programming 8 04-03-2005 00:40
Static Electricity JeffO Championship Event 5 19-04-2004 11:04
Static Electricity archiver 2001 12 24-06-2002 00:34


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:03.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi