Team Update #14

[Rick]

It appears that FIRST has realized through the pre-ship scrimmages that this will be a very low scoring game and changed pinning to encourage scoring.

Breakaway is a good game, but only when there is scoring on the field. Week 1 events will certainly not be the exciting soccer matches that FIRST envisioned spectators would enjoy, but will improve greatly as the weeks go on.

[Mr.G]

Now it says no pinning against a field element. The floor is not a field element, but is the bump?

[dtengineering]

Pinning only happens when a team is stuck against a field element. You can bump and grind in the middle of the field to your heart's content.

The matches could actually be pretty boring without some kind of pinning rule, so even though we've built a drive train with "physical interaction" in mind, I'm happy to comply with any reasonable rule on pinning.

Jason

[Tom Line]

I can't say I like this very much.

In 2007, with a "small" field (basically cut in half because of the rack) swerves and mechanums advantages were largely removed. They didn't have the distance or time to maneuver, and this made it possible to take a not-so-great robot and play defense on them reasonably well. This made the games closer and more strategic.

With the field cut in 3rds this year, you have even less room. Yes, swerves and mechanum are nice to get to that ball, but their drawback has always been lack of power and ability to be pinned (some swerves overcame that).

This played a huge roll in our drivetrain and our gearing selections this year. We figured on close in battles and a ton of defense in those little 1/3 size fields, and sized our drivetrain accordingly.

Now, I'm looking at this and wishing we had known at the beginning of the season that hard-nose defense on a good "O" bot wasn't going to be as effective. We may very well have gone down a different road.

Oh well. Another opportunity to improve!

[Justin Montois]

"Somehow, Section 7, Rev I still doesn’t have the changes issued in Team Update 10 (and subsequently, 11) incorporated. Third time’s a charm."

I lol'd

In regards to the pinning rule, I like it. I was afraid that elims were going to be a defense fest as it is. I would like to see some high scoring mathes in Elims but as Car Nack predicted, there's a high probability that Quals will have higher scores.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Tom Line

I can't say I like this very much.

In 2007, with a "small" field (basically cut in half because of the rack) swerves and mechanums advantages were largely removed. They didn't have the distance or time to maneuver, and this made it possible to take a not-so-great robot and play defense on them reasonably well. This made the games closer and more strategic.

With the field cut in 3rds this year, you have even less room. Yes, swerves and mechanum are nice to get to that ball, but their drawback has always been lack of power and ability to be pinned (some swerves overcame that).

This played a huge roll in our drivetrain and our gearing selections this year. We figured on close in battles and a ton of defense in those little 1/3 size fields, and sized our drivetrain accordingly.

Now, I'm looking at this and wishing we had known at the beginning of the season that hard-nose defense on a good "O" bot wasn't going to be as effective. We may very well have gone down a different road.

Oh well. Another opportunity to improve!

Tom,

Hard nosed defense doesn't mean pinning always. And hard nosed defense will be effective, just different.

The game just became a little (1 second) more fluid and defense now must be a bit more agile.

TBH, I believe that once you get into the elims, good defense will be king.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Bill_B

As to pining about no pinning - back off brutes! I've been reading various brags about how they're not going to be pushed or push people all over the field. Perhaps it comes from too much exposure to the many electronic games that emphasize anti-social gaming.

As a team that plans on playing a lot of effective defense, I'm just a bit offended at the implied anti-social tendencies of my teammates and myself solely because we think pushing a robot aside to get to a ball is a good idea in a game full of mecanum and other lower-traction drives. "Physical" interaction has been a part of FRC for every year that isn't 2001, and I don't want my team being called funny names just because we interact with our opponents to help an alliance succeed. (Not very anti-social to me...)

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With Update 14, I hope teams remember that there are other ways to play defense rather than pure immobilization!

[kmitchell]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

How does that change things? I guess it means you don't have to be 6 feet away for 3 whole seconds, so the pinning victim can't extend it's own safety window?

Wireless practice fields! <3

In order to run wireless on the practice field teams will be required to use a FIRST issued radio on the practice field that has been paired with the practice field router. Teams will not be allowed (or able) to run on the practice field with their own team radio.

While this is better it still does not allow teams to verify that their radio is configured properly and functioning before they arrive at the playing field. [Edit: That is what the first practice match is for]