Playing two different games this year?

[Pjdaley13]

Oh by the way sorry to the teams we played defense for, didn't mean to cause harm.

[Pjdaley13]

Originally Posted by Laaba 80

2-3-1 is not a winning record. You got ranked so low because there was almost no scoring for either alliance.

Sorry not exactly at the end of the day towards the end, we had most of our matches late and close together. Didn't figure out the coopertition effect until late in the day. Thanks for pointing that out.

[rwood359]

Originally Posted by Pjdaley13

It is a little difficult to convince the teams that are selecting that your rankings are bad because you played defense well.

Not always.
In San Diego, we chose 294 because they played a good defense. The disconnect between qualifying and elimination strategies does create a problem for defensive robots. Play your game and hurt your alliance's ranking or play for ranking and hurt your chance of being selected, if you don't make the top 8.

[Integral]

The absoult worst thing about a 6v0 stradgy is that it does NOT maximize the seed points. In fact it minimizes them.

Consider a 16-0 score each teams get 16 seed points. Not to bad, right?

Now consider those same 16 goals split evenly for a 8-8 tie, Here each team gets 24 seed points!

Looks to me like a tie is the way to maximize seed points. Why in the world would you want to leave one side scoreless? The alliance which through strong defence skunks the other alliance hurts only themselves.

Play no defence and strive for a tie.

[JamesCH95]

This strategy reminds me of when a number of NHL players threw a post season game because they got to play more consolation games and make more money, because they got paid by the game, rather than continue through the post season as far as they could.

Sure it maximizes your seeding score, but then everyone would have a high seeding score. No drive teams or robots would stand out because no one will be challenged. I feel it would just make every team have a high seed score regardless of anything else, taking any competition out of the picture.

[jspatz1]

I think it is fair to say that the GDC probably did not foresee all the possible ramifications of this seeding system. I understand and agree with the concept of coopertition, but when a win is a loss and a loss is a win, when poor robots rise to the top of the seeding, and when it becomes smart to forfeit matches and not play the game, the something is clearly wrong. I talked to both students and mentors this weekend that were discouraged that building a good robot meant less than knowing how to game the seeding system. If the cooperition factor is taken too far and begins to effect the participants' moral, or if FRC gains the reputation for being a league where being good doesn't really matter, then that is potenitally damaging ground for FRC.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Laaba 80

Having the most seeding points does not mean you win. If you do this and lose in the quarterfinals what do you have to show for your weekend? No wins.

Also IF you get to elims, your drivers will have no experience. They practiced scoring away from them with no defense. Now try to have them score toward them while being defended.

It does not mean you win, but having the top pick of the draft is a big deal. It sets you up to win.

I don't see what the outrage is here. FIRST made the rules, we play with them. This is hardly a loophole. It was an expected outcome, that people began discussing on Chief mere hours after the rules were released.

[JamesCH95]

Originally Posted by Cory

It does not mean you win, but having the top pick of the draft is a big deal. It sets you up to win.

I don't see what the outrage is here. FIRST made the rules, we play with them. This is hardly a loophole. It was an expected outcome, that people began discussing on Chief mere hours after the rules were released.

But you won't know who is good and who is bad because no teams will have been challenged the way they will be in the finals. What's the point of picking if you have minimal criteria to judge by?

[Pjdaley13]

I agree with other posters that say the GDC set the game up and its not throwing the game, it's playing smart. It should lead to more scoring. But the one example of how someone can win 8-0 (or was it 6-0) with a 2 point penalty and lose the seeding points to the loser shows how important penalties are this year. They seem to be a much larger aspect of the game then in years past.

Any thoughts?

[Cory]

Originally Posted by JamesCH95

But you won't know who is good and who is bad because no teams will have been challenged the way they will be in the finals. What's the point of picking if you have minimal criteria to judge by?

You will know who is good and who is bad. That's what scouting is for. The best robots are generally the ones that are driven the best and coached the best. The way you play the game doesn't change how well you drive your robot.

[Nawaid Ladak]

Originally Posted by David Brinza

[*]NO defense is ever played.

This should be done regardless of which way you play the game. the ONLY use i find in this is if the game is a 12-11 match, which we've only seen ONCE so far.