The 469 auto

[apalrd]

Originally Posted by roboraven15

someone needs to copy their robot in a tiny 6 hour window and do the same on the other side lol good luck....

As long as it weighs less than 65 pounds, you could easily make an attachment for your existing robot before opening the bag and put it on in the 6 hour time. The tower itself isn't actually that heavy, its mostly open space.

[JABot67]

Team 51 also has tried this strategy, except that they hang from the tower. If they can figure out how to do that quickly and consistently, we might have 2 Michigan teams that broke the system. MSC Finals could very well be 469 v 51!

[thefro526]

In theory, a team with a long based robot should be able to line up in the mid zone and with their long side parallel to the width of the field and then shoot over and block the tunnel with the long side in autonomous.

That'd be a pretty good way of stopping them from deploying their ball recirculating mechanism, but if they've still got a capable kicker you're probably wasting your time.

[dman9385]

469 is an amazing robot. My team went up against them in their last qualifying match. We set up on an angle by their tower and kept them out during their autonomous mode, however once they took control they were able to push us right out of the way. We programmed an autonomous to move us inside their tunnel just in case we saw them again, but we didn't. Good job 469

[pfreivald]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cgh1887XDo

That robot is *sick*, but it can be beaten. Not easily, but it can be.

I hope!

[Mr. B 2851]

The 469 auto is beatable. Our programming team came up with an auton mode that wedged us at a 45 degree angle in the opposing alliance's tower during our second to last qualification match. We then played a game of cat and mouse and would dart out to kick some balls to our offensive zone and dart back to the tower to block them. They did manage to get past us and get into the tower by the end of the match but I don't believe they scored more than their auton shot in that match. We finished the match with a 2-2 tie which I considered a victory against them.

We tried to run the program on our alliance's robot with a similar auton in the semi-finals, but unfortunately team 313 was too tall and was unable to wedge in the tower. 469's auton just pushed their bot aside quite easily.

All-in-all it is an amazing robot... as long as they have a teammate who can score (as we painfully saw in the semi's!).

Bryan Battaglia
Mentor
Team 2851 Crevolution

[Mr. B 2851]

Here is a link to their incredible design in action.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TgjyRqrobc

Bryan Battaglia
Mentor
Team 2851 Crevolution

[kavisiegel]

The opposing alliance could just put a wall on their robot, drive straight up to the tunnel, and when the ball comes down 469's bot, it'll bounce off and hopefully go in the other direction. Problem is, the opposing alliance would have no defense... but 469's alliance would be down one on offence.

[PaW]

Must ... break ... infinite ... loop.

Easy to say, hard to do. The lone defensive robot must try to clear stray balls... but when one (or both) 469 alliance robots are playing defense in their home zone, it looks to be a challenge to break away and chase the strays.

Bravo to 469 on their elegant design. Really "breaks the game".

[Rizner]

Is their drive (or whatever they have to keep them in place) too strong to stop other teams from going into the tunnel from their opponents zone and pushing them back away to the middle zone?

[Mr. B 2851]

Originally Posted by Rizner

Is their drive (or whatever they have to keep them in place) too strong to stop other teams from going into the tunnel from their opponents zone and pushing them back away to the middle zone?

I saw two teams try to do that. Neither were able to budge 469. A couple teams tried to ram the tower just as the ball left the return ramp. That worked to some extent, but the timing had to be perfect. The main problem in the elim matches is when 469 is paired up with a fast maneuverable shooter like 217 it doesn't really matter if they make the goal or not. If the opposing alliance is keeping 469's "shots" from going in, then the other bot has a field day scoring all the stray balls unopposed. If you try to defend against 217, then 469 destroys you! You have to block 469 from the tunnel in auton or your done if they have a good scorer on their team.

Bryan Battaglia
Mentor
Team 2851 Crevolution

[topgun]

There are a couple of ways to beat this. The first is as one of the previous poster's team did was to try to beat them to the tunnel in the autonomous mode and harass them enough to keep from setting up.

I think another way is to put in a defender with a kicker, one that can clear the ball out of the zone. They can't score if they don't have balls being fed to them, which means the defender needs to clear the balls out of the zone.

Watching the referenced videos, there were plenty of balls that didn't go right in the goal, that could have been cleared out of the zone if the defender could kick the ball.

Also, your robot is faster than the ball. Station your robot near the end of their ball drop and chase it ball down enough to disrupt it's path to the goal. Then clear it out of the zone.

- T

[apalrd]

Originally Posted by Rizner

Is their drive (or whatever they have to keep them in place) too strong to stop other teams from going into the tunnel from their opponents zone and pushing them back away to the middle zone?

1. 469 has an 8wd with pneumatic tires, geared low. Not easy to push to begin with.

2. 469 latches to the bottom of the tower pneumatically. There is a horizontal bar under the platform. They grab on and don't let go.

[gorrilla]

Originally Posted by apalrd

1. 469 has an 8wd with pneumatic tires, geared low. Not easy to push to begin with.

2. 469 latches to the bottom of the tower pneumatically. There is a horizontal bar under the platform. They grab on and don't let go.

What if you had a robot start in the middle zone that beat them to the tunnel, then when teleop starts go completely into the tunnel. That way if they wanted to get into position they would have to push you out into their near-zone. But if you already have one of your alliances robots there they couldent move you out without getting penalized? Becuase you are not allowed to cause another team to get a penalty.....so then they would have to push you from the other side, but if they did that then they still couldent get into position unless they timed it perfectly.....

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by gorrilla

But if you already have one of your alliances robots there they couldent move you out without getting penalized?

Why? Because you are forced into your defensive zone? That just means the penalty won't be *scored*, not they they will be magically prohibited from shoving you out of the way.

...the other thing to consider is that it might be well worth a penalty to prevent them from being able to set up their ball recycler...