After Coming Back From The LA Regional: My Thoughts On FIRST

[Grim Tuesday]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

IDK if that idea really works... because when you play games, does that ever happen? One guy moves the player and the other aims and shoots? Our driver was fantastic, when our bot was working fine we got all our balls on our side into the goal. and we has 2 or 3 "coaches", and 1 driver at a time

IT works. We were alliance captains, and got knocked out in the semifinals by one point to the winning alliance. This game is not basketball, or soccer. It is FRC.

You also complain about being a poor team: Our school gives almost nothing besides a building and amazing teachers. We get our money from fundraising and sponsors.

From what I have seen that is different from what I know for FIRST. People communicate with other teams beyond good game. For example at West Michigan District in the pit one of our seniors got approached for an autograph by a person from a different team it was a pretty amusing event if you only seen it. It is good to have teams to work on different parts but everyone can get involved with something else. If you are a programmer you could learn to help with some hardware if the code is finished.

This is so true. Our team and team 365 chilled together for quite a while talking and chatting. They ended up beating us in the semifinals, but they ending giving their "moeaward". I still am not sure what that is, but I cant wait to talk with some of their team again. They were all so nice, and it makes me feel proud to be part of a game where teams can be nice, and still compete.

[MagiChau]

Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday

IT works. We were alliance captains, and got knocked out in the semifinals by one point to the winning alliance. This game is not basketball, or soccer. It is FRC.

You also complain about being a poor team: Our school gives almost nothing besides a building and amazing teachers. We get our money from fundraising and sponsors.



This is so true. Our team and team 365 chilled together for quite a while talking and chatting. They ended up beating us in the semifinals, but they ending giving their "moeaward". I still am not sure what that is, but I cant wait to talk with some of their team again. They were all so nice, and it makes me feel proud to be part of a game where teams can be nice, and still compete.

I would say what they gave you is an award for growing. moe means "budding" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moe_%28slang%29

[EricH]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

IDK if that idea really works... because when you play games, does that ever happen? One guy moves the player and the other aims and shoots? Our driver was fantastic, when our bot was working fine we got all our balls on our side into the goal. and we has 2 or 3 "coaches", and 1 driver at a time

Ask Shane, the drive coach on 330 (and the only one who didn't wear the yellow jeans), about that.

For reference, Shane and Elijah, his arm/shooter operator, won 4 regionals, 2 Championship divisions, the Championship, and 1 IRI in 4 years as a drive team. In addition, they picked up 2 regional finalists and 1 IRI finalist.

Yep, it works. It can also take a load off the driver by allowing another person to take some of his duties. The hard part is to have a drive team instead of two drivers. That can only come through practice and trust.

BTW, I was referring to 2008, which was Shane's last year as a driver. There are those who consider him one of the best drivers in FRC.

[davidthefat]

Originally Posted by EricH

Ask Shane, the drive coach on 330, about that.

For reference, Shane and Elijah, his arm/shooter operator, won 4 regionals, 2 Championship divisions, the Championship, and 1 IRI in 4 years as a drive team. In addition, they picked up 2 regional finalists and 1 IRI finalist.

Yep, it works. It can also take a load off the driver by allowing another person to take some of his duties. The hard part is to have a drive team instead of two drivers. That can only come through practice and trust.

We lacked practice, we did not have a defined driver until the day of the competition, we were just lucky our driver we picked was good at what he did... Or we wouldnt even be ranked, Yea Next year there are TONS of things to change about our team

[rcmolloy]

Many people are ignorant of the fact of what FIRST actually does. It was great that you showed your opinion but FIRST does A LOT for all of us. So what if your school can't go to many regionals. FIRST should be about the learning process that you go through not the competitions man. Even though you are on the football team and track team, are you going to persue those in your future? Embrace it if you want to it's your choice.

[davidthefat]

Originally Posted by rcmolloy

Many people are ignorant of the fact of what FIRST actually does. It was great that you showed your opinion but FIRST does A LOT for all of us. So what if your school can't go to many regionals. FIRST should be about the learning process that you go through not the competitions man. Even though you are on the football team and track team, are you going to persue those in your future? Embrace it if you want to it's your choice.

No I not bashing on FIRST but the whole competition not the company, IDK if you understand, you can love football but hate the BCS

[rcmolloy]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

No I not bashing on FIRST but the whole competition not the company, IDK if you understand, you can love football but hate the BCS

So you base things off of how the competitions are? Why do that? Competitions are where teams show off who they are and give every effort to help others. The games are there to have fun man. I know I have a blast every year with them and look forward to them every year. I don't know what you're seeing but FIRST offers so much fun!

[Leav]

As a long time participant in FIRST, I can assure you that 99% of the stuff people do is genuine and sincere.

sure there are those who will do stuff for the pat on the back, but for the most part (read: 99% of the time) true FIRSTers do it [the right thing] because they're infected with the FIRST spirit .

you'll notice this when people are giving their opponents a hand before the next match, and when lending classmate batteries (or just whole classmates!) to other teams who are having trouble...

I'm not knocking you down for calling it as you see it (in fact: kudos for doing so!), but I think that if you stick with it you'll come to see that in FIRST, the unbelievable is true: people are actually selfishly helping other people!

regarding the whole parade/fashion show thing: yeah making a name for yourself is a big part of FIRST, as it is in many other sports. I see nothing wrong with this when it's done tastefully.

regarding professionalism: that's just up to you. being professional is a decision you can make. and frankly professional teams are those who command the most respect from me. seeing a team perform like a formula 1 (or NASCAR for you americans.. ) pit crew is always an inspiring site. it's up to you (and your team) to decide you want to strive for this, and if you want to you could try and spread this goal (being professional) throughout your regional.

again, kudos.
-Leav

[,4lex S.]

I don't know how your team functions or what your circumstances are, but for me, FRC was always much more than the competitions. 6 weeks of building a robot with people who became close friends and coming together as a team to accomplish difficult tasks, or to provide community service for the rest of the year were the key aspects of my experience.

Sometimes you may see things in FIRST that make you wonder how effective the system really is, but look at some of the teams. RAWC, 190, and 4 were all at your event, and are all very professional behaving teams (I don't know of many SoCal teams, so don't take this as a limit).

I don't know of many teams that aren't trying to post a solid score, that would be against the purpose of the competition. Most teams are gracious in helping others and cheer loudly for all that they have accomplished, but the professionalism shows clearly in the pit (most pits I have seen) where the team comes together in an organized fashion to prepare their robot to compete. I would never expect a driver to leave anything out of their effort either.

[sanddrag]

David,

I don't believe we've met, but as a resident of the Crescenta Valley, and a long time friend of that area's two teams (589 and 696), I find your view point disappointing. I'm sorry you have not had as great of a time as the rest of us are having. I'm interested in finding out which teams you believe are selifish, and are only in it for the points and reputation. Rather than posting here, please send me a Private Message with your thoughts, as perhaps I may be able to clear up some common misconceptions, or reaffirm some of your view-points (in private).

I agree that some of the customes, and music, and flair is often a bit silly. But, it's kids (and often adults) having fun, and that's what this is all about. Different teams will run their programs different ways, and there's nothing you can do to stop them, other than to run yours the way you see fit.

I'd like you to stick around and give FIRST (and your team) another chance, and you might surprise yourself.

Also, one last point. You'd be surprised to hear how little money some of the "good teams" actually have. As in, some of them never know whether there will be a subsequent year. And some of them have so little, that their mentors must make personal financial sacrifices so the team is able to continue functioning. Please do not make assumptions without knowing all the facts.

[MagiChau]

Sorry but I can not help but disagree with your opinion about "selfishness." People helping led you to think that everyone is selfish? I don't recall there being points for giving a team a needed part like a cRIO. Also, reputation is earned is it not? How do you expect teams to get reputation by not helping others? If they do you claim it is selfishness. Sorry, I just got a little angry at that opinion.

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

Teams are willing to help and give stuff out, but in the end, their sole purpose is selfishness. All they want is points and reputation.

You may have had an experience this weekend that led you to believe this, but I guarantee that this is not true for most of the teams in FIRST. Take this for example, those teams had no points or reputation to gain, all the judging has already been completed by that time. They had nothing to gain by making the gesture that they did, and in fact could have been eliminated because of it, but they did it anyway.

It was more like a fashion show than an actual robot competition. All the teams were trying to advertise their team by wearing stupid costumes and decorating their pits.

If you asked one of these people why they were singing or dancing or dressing a certain way you would probably find that it has very little to do with advertising their team. FRC regionals provide an environment for students (and professional engineers) where it is perfectly safe and acceptable to "let loose" and sing dance, wear funny hats, and generally have a good time for a weekend.

I would suggest, as others have in this thread, that you give FIRST at least one more shot. I will also suggest however, that FRC isn't for everyone. It's perfectly fine to decide that this competition isn't for you. There are many other science, engineering, and robotics competitions that may be more what you are looking for.

My school is not very rich, I know that the "richer" schools got a lot more funding than us, but I am not complaining about that. I seen some AMAZING robots this regional, unfortunately its the only regional we can attend, since we lack the funding. Well since our school is not very rich, our sports department lacks fancy uniforms and equipments.

Most of the "richer" teams do not get funding from their schools. They get it from a combination of corporate sponsors and fundraising such as car washes, bake sales, etc. Most or all of these teams work very hard for what they have.

Since I am in Football and Track, I seen professionalism. We show professionalism by not talking with our mouths but the scoreboard. IDK, I think FIRST competition system is not the best system... In before flames. I am sure there are people out there with similar ideas...

In football and track, the goal is to win on the scoreboard as you have stated. In FRC the most prestigious award is earned off the field. FRC is about changing the culture and our most prestigious award recognizes that. The Chairman's award is earned with your mouth, not on the scoreboard.