PROGRAMMERS: WIND RIVER C++ vs LABVIEW vs JAVA

[krudeboy51]

WHICH SOFTWARE IS THE BEST AND EASIEST TO USE TO PROGRAM A ROBOT, AND WHY YOU THINK IT IS?:

-WIND RIVER C++

-LABVIEW

or

-JAVA

to start, i choose windriver c++, because its the only language i know lol

[davidthefat]

C++ is my favorite language, but I never used windriver, but I heard to was a $@#$@#$@#$@#$@# to use...

[gr8dragon]

I prefer C++ because its the first language i was introduced to.
I like Labview as it is not the same text coding I have been used to for a long time.

However we chose not to use Labview over Windriver because we thought that having a bunch of those connecting wires might get harder and harder to trace.
I guess I really haven't used it too much besides basic robot functions and one sensor.(Pot)

We kinda just said not to use Java and it was rather arbitrary.

[apalrd]

We like LabVIEW because we can do real-time analysis of things without re-downlading. Like making graphs vs Time of data points, probing data, and changing cal points. However, the largest negative I have is the build and download times. I once timed a build at 2 mins 41 seconds. The downloads are more reasonable, at around 1 minute. Overall, I would prefer LabVIEW over C++.

[davidthefat]

Personally I wouldn't call LabView coding at all...

[AustinSchuh]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

Personally I wouldn't call LabView coding at all...

Then what is your definition of programming?

I personally define programming as using a language that is turning complete to get a job done. Using Labview fits that definition, so I'd personally call using it programming. I may not enjoy using the language, but I personally don't let that effect my view about whether using it is programming or not.

[apalrd]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

Personally I wouldn't call LabView coding at all...

LabVIEW IS coding. It's used often in the real world (although not on production things, many companies use it for testing and experimentation), its optimized to run on cRio's, can run on the FPGA too (although FIRST won't let us do that), has networked front panels, can execute C libraries (using Call Library Function), can run parallel tasks (multithreading) super-easily (try making two WHILE loops in C++ that run in parallel, you won't be able to do it as easy as you can in LabVIEW), the ability to make asynchronous calls easily (static VI ref + Invoke Node), built-in toolkits for PID, fuzzy logic, and toolkits available for many more cool things, through a number of sources, comparable to many C++ libraries. If you are just saying your language is better than LabVIEW, while I see how you could consider C++ or Java "real" programming, LabVIEW is real code too, it runs just as well, it is super-easy to debug, and it's alot easier to code then C++ or Java.

[davidthefat]

Originally Posted by apalrd

LabVIEW IS coding. It's used often in the real world (although not on production things, many companies use it for testing and experimentation), its optimized to run on cRio's, can run on the FPGA too (although FIRST won't let us do that), has networked front panels, can execute C libraries (using Call Library Function), can run parallel tasks (multithreading) super-easily (try making two WHILE loops in C++ that run in parallel, you won't be able to do it as easy as you can in LabVIEW), the ability to make asynchronous calls easily (static VI ref + Invoke Node), built-in toolkits for PID, fuzzy logic, and toolkits available for many more cool things, through a number of sources, comparable to many C++ libraries. If you are just saying your language is better than LabVIEW, while I see how you could consider C++ or Java "real" programming, LabVIEW is real code too, it runs just as well, it is super-easy to debug, and it's alot easier to code then C++ or Java.

But I will bet you C/C++ was used to program that LabView

[AmoryG]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

But I will bet you C/C++ was used to program that LabView

Deep down, isn't Java just C/C++ code as well? It means squat that LabView is built off of another language. It's still a language.

[EthanMiller]

My opinion is all this contains.

I used Java to program the robot this year. Last year, I used LabVIEW. And to be honest, once each was on the robot, I didn't see any difference in performance. We also didn't get any complaints from the drivers.

I'm probably going to try C++ next year.

I'm not an experienced programmer. I started programming on the TI graphing calculators, with the built-in BASIC-like language. Moving to LabVIEW was something different, and JAVA the same. And I can say - again, my opinion - that for this application, I didn't see that one was particularly better than the other.

I'm probably still going to learn Java and C/C++ for programming for the computer. LabVIEW programs can run on a computer, but that doesn't mean it's inexpensive to do so.

Thus, does being proprietary and costly make a language better or worse? Or does it merely make it more exclusive? And, is exclusivity a bad thing?

And as for LabVIEW not being programming: My opinion is that anything that is compiled into native code and executed on a computer is a programming language. This may not be accurate - I'm in 10th grade and starting programming, so correct me if I'm wrong in that definition - but LabVIEW fits it, and so to me is real programming.

[Robototes2412]

Java is faster than labview

dissassembled, labview code makes random calls that waste cpu cycles. Java code doesn't

[Greg McKaskle]

Bravo Ethan Miller. Very well said. That is the sort of attitude that makes it rewarding to work with FIRST.

Greg McKaskle

[The Lucas]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

Personally I wouldn't call LabView coding at all...

When I saw this thread I thought "Over/Under 5 posts before some throws out this particular flame" Looks like it a push and I was right on. This argument is getting old and predictable.

My team uses C++ because that is what works best for us. All 3 languages are coding. I suggest everyone try to learn all 3 of them. Trying to argue that any one language is better for programming FIRST robots is a meaningless pursuit, it is all based on personal opinion. They certainly have their own pros and cons (which are fine to discuss) but all are equally capable. Try to focus on what you would tell a rookie team trying to choose between the 3.

[davidthefat]

Originally Posted by The Lucas

When I saw this thread I thought "Over/Under 5 posts before some throws out this particular flame" Looks like it a push and I was right on. This argument is getting old and predictable.

My team uses C++ because that is what works best for us. All 3 languages are coding. I suggest everyone try to learn all 3 of them. Trying to argue that any one language is better for programming FIRST robots is a meaningless pursuit, it is all based on personal opinion. They certainly have their own pros and cons (which are fine to discuss) but all are equally capable. Try to focus on what you would tell a rookie team trying to choose between the 3.

I personally will tell the said rookie team to pick up a C++ book and read it and study and meditate on it, IMHO its way more useful in the real world out of the 3. If you learn C++, you pretty much know Java (except alot of the java specific stuff), won't take you very long to pick up on java. Plus most real world applications are in C/C++, like Operating Systems, Games, and tons of stuff.

[virtuald]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

I personally will tell the said rookie team to pick up a C++ book and read it and study and meditate on it, IMHO its way more useful in the real world out of the 3. If you learn C++, you pretty much know Java (except alot of the java specific stuff), won't take you very long to pick up on java. Plus most real world applications are in C/C++, like Operating Systems, Games, and tons of stuff.

Right... the 'real' world... and how many years have you been working in the software industry now?

It just depends on where you end up in the 'real' world. Different languages are better for different tasks. There is a lot to be said for domain-specific languages (such as Matlab) and scripting languages (such as python). Just depends on what you're trying to accomplish and what you're used to.