Sacrificing a State Championship for the Cause???

[BJC]

Originally Posted by hektormagee

I disagree. You have to remember that in Atlanta, the michigan team will be peppered into 4 different divisions without the chance of cross picking. While there is more total talent in atlanta, there is going to be nowhere near the condensed talent you will find at Michigan State Championships. I mean, where else would a bot like Foley Freeze be picked by the #4 alliance?? Or the Monsters and Bionic Barons being picked as a 3rd round pick by the #1and 2 alliances?? Absolutely nowhere. I believe that Dave was right and that that Michigan State Championship was the hardest competition in the history of FIRST.

Perhaps, after/if other states start using the michigan system, we could have a Championship Midwest Regional or something of that sort, that way the best teams from several states could compete against each other! Someday!

Kind of like Atlanta but just one giant regional!

[Basel A]

Originally Posted by BJC

Perhaps, after/if other states start using the michigan system, we could have a Championship Midwest Regional or something of that sort, that way the best teams from several states could compete against each other! Someday!

Kind of like Atlanta but just one giant regional!

I believe the idea is that once every state has a State Championship, teams will qualify to a Regional Competition, from which they will have to qualify for Nationals. Obviously that is both far-fetched and, in any case, not happening any time soon, but I think that's what the FRC is trying to get to.

[WJF2011]

Originally Posted by Joe Johnson

I have been watching the Michigan State Championships with some interest.


*I have predicted privately and now I predict online for the first time, that I believe that 4 of the 6 teams playing the last match on Einstein will be Michigan teams. The bottom half of the Michigan teams are the same as the bottom half around the country but the higher you go in the percentiles, the more distance the Michigan teams put between them and the rest of the country. I am far from unbiased on this matter but I think it is true.

You speak the truth my friend, between 469, 217, and 1918 in the finals of michigan will dominate in atlanta. It seems as though 469 has beaten the game, good job guys, im impressed.

[Mike Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Joe Johnson

Let me say this about that...

.....

Second, I don't accept that the competition will be tougher on any stage in Atlanta save Einstein. I believe that the competition in Ypsilanti was head and shoulders above the divisions in Atlanta. I am not saying that there will be no great teams added to the mix in Atlanta but I AM saying that from top to bottom, the competition in Atlanta will not be as strong as what I just saw at MSC. It was a real showcase.

The why is a complex mix of the quality of the teachers, sponsors, mentors, the new district/state championship format, etc...

Joe J.

While I agree with your statement MSC is a deeper competition and therefore third picks while be better, I fully agree with your reason.

MSC had every team qualify in some way shape or form. They either were good enough to get picked and play in elimination matches and earned their points or won awards. Yes there were a couple teams that probably didn't deserve it as much as some teams that didn't go because they were carried by their alliance partners, even then they were good enough to be picked by a top seed, but (as a guess) most of those robots made it to at least the semifinals in one district. They earned their way.

Atlanta is not the same way. There is open registration for teams that have the money. MSC is actually more exclusive. While this is not the sole reason, I believe if 469 were going to be beat it would have happened at MSC.

[sashboy226]

I have not seen the finals matches yet (hopefully TBA will have them soon), but I usually prefer the quarterfinals with 469 as a good gauge of strategy. You see three teams going into the match knowing they are most likely doomed, and usually attempt two different game styles, one more effective than the other, before they pack it up and say goodnight. These strategies are generally different than what each team is comfortable with, and should be observed by others.

When we were picked 8th seed at MSC, I was crushed. I knew we weren't going past quarters, but we went into the match guns blazing. 2337 got in the way of 469 during auton and they ended up partially on the bump, and fell down. We had that match in our grasp until the crowd stopped yelling "BLUE ALLIANCE" because 469 had been righted and was on the tower. We lost 14-11. The second match was nowhere near as close. 2337 blocked the tower in the beginning of teleop and was just pushed out of the way by 469s incredibly strong drive (kudos for that by the way). We then attempted to block the cycle, but even though we are an incredibly agile bot, we only weigh in at about 88 pounds and can't win a shoving match against a cart, so we were stuck on the wrong side of 469 when the balls came down the ramp. We ultimately lost 16-7, still a respectable score against this winning alliance.

Lesson: Watch and learn from EVERY elimination match against 469.

[Rabbot]

469 is beatable with the right combination of alliance members along with a sound strategy. 217 successfully defended 469, however it was a near 1 on 1 situation. Unfortunately, 217 being the prolific scorer they were, was sacrificed to defend 469. 67 and 217 would have had a field day in zones 1 and 2 had they relied on a strong defensive bot to neutralize 469.

Team 66 had effectively neutralized 469 in their match (match 77) in zone 2, keeping them from doing much of anything.

I think to win this years game, you will need two prolific scorers and one strong defensive bot, regardless of who is on the other team.

[Norman J]

Rabbot: I would have to politely disagree about putting a strong defensive bot in the home zone. That robot needs to be able to clear the balls out of the home zone up to the midfield, otherwise the robot on the other team playing offense will just score the ones you block while you're still defending 469. That robot needs to be agile enough to block the balls as 217 did while also kicking as many as possible out of the zone, and hopefully permanently out of the loop.

[Rabbot]

Originally Posted by Norman J

Rabbot: I would have to politely disagree about putting a strong defensive bot in the home zone. That robot needs to be able to clear the balls out of the home zone up to the midfield, otherwise the robot on the other team playing offense will just score the ones you block while you're still defending 469. That robot needs to be agile enough to block the balls as 217 did while also kicking as many as possible out of the zone, and hopefully permanently out of the loop.

I agree with you BUT, I would think that the best strategy would be to defend 469 in the midfield to prevent them from entering their tower loop as well as fielding any balls. As long as 469 is busy with the defending bot, they will be like any other robot on the field. If 469 does happen to enter the towel loop, then you will need to cross the bump and implement the 217 strategy.
My main point was that you can't sacrifice a prolific scorer as 217 to defend 469. In the elimination rounds, it will be doubtful that an alliance will have 3 prolific scorers. So during the selections the role of a strong defensive bot increases.
Running and gunning with teams will cause some pretty exciting matches. But ultimately, defense wins championships. A great team will consist of robots that will play doing what they do best, and IMHO that's two prolific scorers and a robust defense bot.

[Norman J]

Originally Posted by Rabbot

I agree with you BUT, I would think that the best strategy would be to defend 469 in the midfield to prevent them from entering their tower loop as well as fielding any balls. As long as 469 is busy with the defending bot, they will be like any other robot on the field. If 469 does happen to enter the towel loop, then you will need to cross the bump and implement the 217 strategy.
My main point was that you can't sacrifice a prolific scorer as 217 to defend 469. In the elimination rounds, it will be doubtful that an alliance will have 3 prolific scorers. So during the selections the role of a strong defensive bot increases.
Running and gunning with teams will cause some pretty exciting matches. But ultimately, defense wins championships. A great team will consist of robots that will play doing what they do best, and IMHO that's two prolific scorers and a robust defense bot.

Sorry, I thought you were talking about after they deployed. If we are talking about them not getting into position is the first place, I obviously agree that a great pusher would have the best chance of delaying their deployment.