Undefeated Teams at Regional Events

[Tom Ore]

Originally Posted by keehun

525 was REALLY close... They only lost in the Finals at Minnesota 10,000 Lakes.

Yes - we had a good run but 1714, 2062 and 3038 were a great alliance. One thing I thought was pretty funny, though: in qualifying we always scored 1 or 2 balls from the third zone. Twice we came within a few inches of scoring the third ball. In the eliminations, both of our partners were tall bots that had autonomous modes that moved in our path. We would bounce the first ball off of 2518 and the second off of 2177. Didn't score a single ball in automous in the eliminations. Not much you can do at that point but have a good laugh about it. Overall, it was a good run - 2177 and 2518 were great partners that took us all the way to the finals.

[eyu100]

Originally Posted by Karthik

Yup, Josh has it right. It happened twice in Waterloo. The first time was a complete goof up on our part, we totally missed the presence of one of our partners in the defensive zone. The second time we were heading back over the bump to the defensive zone, but at the same time our partner zoomed through the tunnel and beat us into the zone. Either way, they were both a couple of embarrassing mistakes that Kyle Willick (The Commander) won't live down for a while.

(On the other hand, this goes down in a long line of embarrassing mistakes by Simbot coaches. In 2008, Derek Bessette had the drive team hurdle the wrong colour ball twice at the start of a match at the Midwest Regional.)

Anyways, back to the topic of undefeated teams, here is what the Simbot Research & Statistics teams has come up with:

              
Team   R Desc   Result    Record     Standings        
359   Arizona   Regional Winner   8-0-2   1         
1124   Connecticut   Regional Winner   8-0-2   1    
148   Dallas   Regional Winner   9-0-0   1       
217   Cass Tech    Regional Winner   12-0-0   1            
359   Hawaii   Regional Winner   12-0-0   1       
368   Hawaii   Regional Winner   12-0-0   2       
1732   Midwest   Regional Winner   10-0-0   2             
1986   Minnesota North Star   Regional Winner   9-0-0   2       
71   Minnesota North Star   Regional Winner   8-0-1   1       
1208   St. Louis   Regional Winner   11-0-1   1       
25   Las Vegas   Regional Winner   10-0-0   1        
1114   Greater Toronto   Regional Winner   9-0-1   1       
1114   Pittsburgh   Regional Winner   11-0-1   1       
971   Silicon Valley   Regional Winner   10-0-0   1       
254   Silicon Valley   Regional Winner   9-0-1   2       
1676   Virginia   Regional Winner   9-0-0   1          
1114   Waterloo   Regional Winner   11-0-0   1       

All this and more will be included in the 2010 Team 1114 Championship Scouting Database, which will be released shortly after the announcement of the Championship divisions.

This list doesn't seem to include elimination matches...

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by eyu100

This list doesn't seem to include elimination matches...

Correct. This is the full list of teams who went undefeated at a regional, but the record shown is just for qualifying. Our database only tracks record by qualifying matches, but I manually pulled out the teams who went undefeated in qualifying and then went on to lose an elimination match.

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by eyu100

This list doesn't seem to include elimination matches...

While the records show the qualification records only, it does not include teams that were undefeated during qualifying and then lost during the eliminations.

[jspatz1]

Originally Posted by Karthik

Anyways, back to the topic of undefeated teams, here is what the Simbot Research & Statistics teams has come up with:

              
Team   R Desc   Result    Record     Standings        
359   Arizona   Regional Winner   8-0-2   1         
1124   Connecticut   Regional Winner   8-0-2   1    
148   Dallas   Regional Winner   9-0-0   1       
217   Cass Tech    Regional Winner   12-0-0   1            
359   Hawaii   Regional Winner   12-0-0   1       
368   Hawaii   Regional Winner   12-0-0   2       
1732   Midwest   Regional Winner   10-0-0   2             
1986   Minnesota North Star   Regional Winner   9-0-0   2       
71   Minnesota North Star   Regional Winner   8-0-1   1       
1208   St. Louis   Regional Winner   11-0-1   1       
25   Las Vegas   Regional Winner   10-0-0   1        
1114   Greater Toronto   Regional Winner   9-0-1   1       
1114   Pittsburgh   Regional Winner   11-0-1   1       
971   Silicon Valley   Regional Winner   10-0-0   1       
254   Silicon Valley   Regional Winner   9-0-1   2       
1676   Virginia   Regional Winner   9-0-0   1          
1114   Waterloo   Regional Winner   11-0-0   1       

What an amazing coincidence that EVERY ONE of those undefeated teams was also regional winner!

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by jspatz1

What an amazing coincidence that EVERY ONE of those undefeated teams was also regional winner!

He manually took out teams that were undefeated in quals but did not win the regional or lost an elims match on the way to a regional win.

[jspatz1]

It was a joke. Undefeated = Winner. OK, so I'm no comedian.

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by jspatz1

It was a joke. Undefeated = Winner. OK, so I'm no comedian.

I thought you were serious before I read that the undefeated qualification match teams were taken out, if they lost during elimination matches.

[eyu100]

Originally Posted by jspatz1

It was a joke. Undefeated = Winner. OK, so I'm no comedian.

Strangely, this year it is possible (but highly unlikely) to win all your matches but not win the regional, if you get many red cards, fail to get in the top 8, and then are not selected by an alliance captain.

[EricH]

Actually, in FIRST, undefeated == winner.

If you never lose a match, and you have to lose two matches to be out of the eliminations, then if you are undefeated and the event is over, you have won the event.

Barring incidents like eyu100 suggests (which, BTW, have yet to happen--after about the second red card, most teams would be seriously thinking about switching out whoever was responsible, if they hadn't already done so), the above holds.

However, winner != undefeated. Every team that won that isn't on the list is proof that that last statement is true.

Also note that, while I won't tell you this officially or at an event, by competing in the competition, even if you don't win anything, you win just as much as by winning the event. Remember, I won't tell you this. I prefer to let you find out for yourself.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by EricH

Actually, in FIRST, undefeated == winner.

If you never lose a match, and you have to lose two matches to be out of the eliminations, then if you are undefeated and the event is over, you have won the event.

Barring incidents like eyu100 suggests (which, BTW, have yet to happen--after about the second red card, most teams would be seriously thinking about switching out whoever was responsible, if they hadn't already done so), the above holds.

However, winner != undefeated. Every team that won that isn't on the list is proof that that last statement is true.

Also note that, while I won't tell you this officially or at an event, by competing in the competition, even if you don't win anything, you win just as much as by winning the event. Remember, I won't tell you this. I prefer to let you find out for yourself.

Technically, a team could go undefeated in qualifications and not make eliminations. Winning every match 1-0 would result in seeding very low.

[Nuttyman54]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

Technically, a team could go undefeated in qualifications and not make eliminations. Winning every match 1-0 would result in seeding very low.

Depending on your definition of undefeated, if you're counting every team that doesn't have a loss as undefeated, you could also go with 0-0 tie matches, which give you even less points.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

Technically, a team could go undefeated in qualifications and not make eliminations. Winning every match 1-0 would result in seeding very low.

Depends on the event.
1 point from your penalized score + 5 points for winning = 6 points/match

Randomly grabbing a few regionals:

Utah (10 matches), 22nd
North Carolina, (9 matches), 43rd
WPI (12 matches), 22nd
L.A. (10 matches), 56th

At Utah or WPI, you'd seed pretty well--well enough to be noticed, quite probably, and almost certainly a backup. At NC or L.A., you'd be pretty much out.

But if a team is consistently winning 1-0, you'd suspect that they 1) had the easiest schedule in the world and 2) might be fixing matches. In all practicality, if your best win is 1-0, the next halfway decent team to come along is going to kick your butt pretty hard, making you a 1-loss team.

Technicality versus practicality...

[The Lucas]

Originally Posted by EricH

Actually, in FIRST, undefeated == winner.

If you never lose a match, and you have to lose two matches to be out of the eliminations, then if you are undefeated and the event is over, you have won the event.

You can't win if you dont make Elims. You can go undefeated and not make elims in this seeding system (0-0 ties are particularly damaging). I don't mean to pick on Israel (I know about the comm problems ), but consider:

Team 2215 at IS
Record 2-0-2 (one match was a surrogate)
Ranked 37th of 55
Did not make Elims

It didn't take me long to find an example in IS. I just went to TBA and clicked on winners of matches (4th try). There are probably more examples there. We should add them to the list. For better or worse they will finish the season undefeated in 4 matches.

[Nuttyman54]

Originally Posted by EricH

WPI (12 matches), 22nd

At Utah or WPI, you'd seed pretty well--well enough to be noticed, quite probably, and almost certainly a backup.

At WPI, with only 29 teams, I wouldn't consider seeding 22nd as seeding pretty well. Given that only 5 teams don't make finals though, you probably would still get picked.