Girls in Engineering- Comic that explains it all

[davidthefat]

Originally Posted by Rick TYler

In fact, Karthik did not call YOU an idiot, he expressed the incredibly wise and well-informed opinion that what you wrote was idiotic, an opinion with which I wholeheartedly concur.

So saying something someone does not agree with is pure idiocy? Then his opinion is pure idiocy too. Now that I say it, people are going to say its not true, so are you saying truth is relative or absolute?

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

Now is it really bad for not conforming to society and saying what is "politically" correct?

edit: you know what really pisses me off? calling me an idiot for expressing my ideas and opinions, I think YOU are the ignorant one here buddy. Keep more open minded will ya? Just because I do not agree with the majority of the group does not mean I am neither ignorant or an idiot, sure arrogant I agree on. But never idiot or ignorant.

First off, let's get one thing clear, I am not your buddy.

No, I think I'm being fairly open minded here. I've seen enough of posts on these forums by you that are either factually incorrect, make no sense or are just offensive. If you don't think there's something ignorant and idiotic about saying that women shouldn't be CEOs because they menstruate monthly, or that companies shouldn't hire attractive women because they distract men, then you're the one who really needs to open his mind.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

Now is it really bad for not conforming to society and saying what is "politically" correct?

edit: you know what really pisses me off? calling me an idiot for expressing my ideas and opinions, I think YOU are the ignorant one here buddy. Keep more open minded will ya? Just because I do not agree with the majority of the group does not mean I am neither ignorant or an idiot, sure arrogant I agree on. But never idiot or ignorant.

Move along folks, don't feed the troll...

[rotolomi]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

Now is it really bad for not conforming to society and saying what is "politically" correct?

edit: you know what really pisses me off? calling me an idiot for expressing my ideas and opinions, I think YOU are the ignorant one here buddy. Keep more open minded will ya? Just because I do not agree with the majority of the group does not mean I am neither ignorant or an idiot, sure arrogant I agree on. But never idiot or ignorant.

It's really quite funny that YOU are telling someone else to be more "open minded", when you're the one who isn't open to accepting women as engineers. No one here is trying to stop you from sharing your opinion, but what is trying to be said is that you need to create a respectable argument before you try and pass something off as intelligent fact. I think we all need a reminder that your opinion is not always the right one, and opinion is NEVER fact. Your opinion is not idiotic, nor are you. Your argument is idiotic and ignorant. "'Monthly problems' that hugely effect relationships between coworkers"? You clearly are not exposed to women often, it's not like we transform into a werewolf for a week every 30 days.
Now, no one's stopping you from sharing your opinion, and no one's stopping you from looking like an ignorant idiot as you attempt to back up your opinion with weak generalized assumptions. But no one will respect your opinion, and we will most certainly not respect you.

[gblake]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

...
In before flamage: I am just stating my opinions, sure they might sound rude or arrogant, but I think men now days are losing the chivalry
...

No those opinions don't sound rude or agrrogant - They are purposefully rude. There is no "might" about it.

Writing or saying self-destructive things like your post below is no way to go through the rest of your life. Choose a better path. Many are available.

Blake

[Steve W]

Enough is enough. I am closing this thread for 24 hours and then will reopen. If the same discussion continues it will be closed for good.

[mayde]

Wow.. it's so true.

Lucky for me my grandpa believed that all girls should have a good set of legos and be skilled with a hammer.

[JaneYoung]

Speaking as a woman who was a very shy quiet girl who had to embrace the changes her body went through - feeling rather like an alien in her own skin - and then working through all of the different attitudes and levels of tolerance in the math education side of things in junior high and high school and then again in the college education as a whole, I would say - embracing, adapting to, accepting, or rejecting change and opinions has been a pretty consistent way of life from the 50's up through now for me.

The teachers whose insistence that I embrace the status quo - were male teachers. So were many of the professors. One professor told me to give up, go home, get married, and make babies. At the same time, another professor (a woman) was raving about my abilities to comprehend and understand the nature of writers such as Maya Angelou in her book, I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings and Sylvia Plath's, The Bell Jar. And at the same, another male professor was making me work harder for an A in his class than I had ever worked for a grade, all while being treated with respect as a student in his classroom. 2 of the classes that I've mentioned impacted my education, life, and career choices in positive and memorable ways. One class impacted my personal life in ways that took years for me to come to peace with.

Embracing such statements as - chain is like a high maintenance woman - is not something I would have embraced in 1973 and it is not something I would embrace in 2010. I also don't plan to encourage girls and young women to embrace statements like that with regard to robotics, their futures, their professions, or with regard to life.

Jane

[RoboMom]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/08/science/08tier.html

Some more interesting food for thought from the NY Times - Daring to Discuss Women in Science

[JamesCH95]

That is an excellent article, I can't wait to read the follow-on column.

Clearly there is some fundamental difference, but who knows if it's nature or nurture, there is evidence to support either argument.

[IKE]

Originally Posted by RoboMom

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/08/science/08tier.html

Some more interesting food for thought from the NY Times - Daring to Discuss Women in Science

Very interesting article. I think that they are trying to look at the data a bit too quickly. Being 13 in 1991, I can tell you there was distinct differences in the attitudes while in school versus those in the years before me (I had cousins that went to school in the early 80s). Now we (late 70's kids) are at the age of having children. In 10-13 years, I would expect the 4:1 ratio to narrow to a 2:1, and then the generation after that, I wouldn't be surprised to see a balance.

[Mikell Taylor]

I really liked some of the responses to that NYT article here. (Especially Dr. Isis's.)

[RoboMom]

Originally Posted by Mikell Taylor

I really liked some of the responses to that NYT article here. (Especially Dr. Isis's.)

[JamesCH95]

I have personally experienced negative effects of this "hyper encouragement" to get women into engineering. I, and a friend of mine (who is a girl) both applied to the same engineering college. I had a better academic and extra-curricular record than she did (she agrees with this) yet she got accepted and I did not. This particular college strives to maintain a 50/50 m/f ratio, but I would bet that their applicant pool was no 50/50.

Do you (the royal you, referring to all of CD) think that it's okay for more qualified men to be denied opportunities so that a college can meet its 50/50 goal? Is there a point here that I'm missing? (This is not a rhetorical question and I'm not trying to be a smart-$@#$@#$@#.)

[Zholl]

just a couple of thoughts:
I would definitely have to agree that women and men are hardwired very differently. we have studies that show that typically, women are very much right brained where men are left, however I would also say that has more impact on the methodology rather than the aptitude of either gender in a STEM field.

I'd also have to say that how you're raised has a significant impact on what a person is like. I realize that neither of us are girls, but my brother and I are pretty good examples of this. when I was little, my parents still had a good chunk of free time that they could spend with me. I also loved books, I loved learning things, and I was curious about everything. my parents had time to sit and read to me, and to help me with my various curiosities. when my brother reached the same age a few years later, he was much the same way, but our parents were working more and didn't have as much time for him as they had had for me. 10-12 years later, you can see the difference it's made. both of us are highly intelligent, but where I'm interested in robotics, and engineering, and all the related subjects, he's become much more of a "jock" type, doing things like MMA and hockey. despite this, he is able to pull off some of the most amazing feats of geo-spatial reasoning I've ever seen, so it's not a lack of mental ability that he's gone this way so much as the fact that his curiosity shifted to more physical past-times as something of an early developmental necessity. I'm certain that there are a lot of girls that find themselves similarly disinterested in math and science because of the way they are raised early on, whether it's because they're parents simply don't have time to help them look into they're curiosities as with my brother, or because their parents instead push them in the opposite direction. I know several girls that fit into that "ditsy cheerleader" stereotype, and it seems to be because their parents made the decision for them, and these girls eventually just grew to fit the mold.

on a more personal note, I find that the girls you typically find involved in FIRST or in other "nerd" activities are far more interesting and, as a result, attractive, then those that better fit mold of what society thinks I should (then again, my Asperger's sort of prevents me from thinking much like the neurotypical male, especially in these matters, so that probably plays into it quite a bit). these are the same young women I find myself trying to bring into FIRST, if they're not already, out of a desire to share this with them and a belief that they would enjoy the experience that comes with it.


I realize that these don't necessarily add much to the current discussion, they're just some thoughts I had while reading this discussion that I felt like sharing, so take them how you will