Pre-event scouting--IRI

[Jeremy Germita]

Although I wasn't planning on that, That would be good.

I didn't plan on this as some IRI teams, 399 included, don't go to offseasons (Besides IRI, of course!).

Question: is TBA listing Offseasons this year? I know they did in previous years, but I didn't see anything about 2010.

[apalrd]

You want stuff from off-seasons too?

TARDEC IGVC:
8-4 quals
#1 seed (also #1 in hanging and coopertition points)
6-0 in elims
Winner
Best match: 17-6 WIN finals1 (33, 2137, 66 vs 51, 469, 245)

You already know the robot features from above.

[kenavt]

TARDEC/IGVC: (7-5-1) Semifinalists (lost to eventual winner 33, 66, and 2137). Highest scoring match: 17-13 W (tied for highest score on a side)

[pwnageNick]

Team 2949 PWNAGE


Events Attended:

Midwest Regional
-Finalist
-Engineering Excellence Award
-Record:11-4-2
-4th Alliance Captain
-Defeated HOF team 111 Wildstang, and Galileo Champion 1625 Winnovationin in the semi-finals

Greater Toronto Regional
-Semi-finalist
-Record:7-4-3
-Lost to team 1114 Simbotics and team 2056 OP Robotics in semi-finals
-We were the closest team in regional play to defeating Simbotics, we tied them 10-10 in the last qualifying match



Highest Scoring Matches:

Midwest Regional:
-Qualifying Match #59 W 12-3
-Qualifying Match #65 W 12-4

Greater Toronto Regional:
-Semi-Final Match 1 L 15-11



Season Record: 18-8-5
2 Events Attended



Robot Specs:

Drivetrain:
-4 Wheel Tank Drive
-Omni Wheels in the back for smooth turn
-Grippy wheels in front for Power
-8 feet/second

Kicker:
-High Power Kicker
-Cam Release Mechanism
-Can Score From Every Zone
-Can Kick once every second- no reload time

Ball Control:
-Vacuum
-Holds onto the ball and never lets go until its kicked
-Lasts the whole Match
-Only working effective vacuum in all of FRC

Hanging:
-Hook that telescopes out, and winchs up.
-Efficient, only failed twice the whole season.
-Can also work as a good defence mechanism
Hangs from the side/bump

Bump:
-Yes, and doesn't crash around

Tunnel:
-Yes

Autonomous
-Auto From All 3 Zones
-Can Score From All 3 Zones

WE ARE ALSO THE ONLY TEAM THAT CAN BLOCK 469
WE CAN REACH UP AND DEFLECT BALLS AWAY FROM THEIR MECHANISM AND TOWARDS OUR OWN SIDE.

This is our second year in FRC and we are located in Batavia, IL. Just an hour west of Chicago.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by pwnageNick

WE ARE ALSO THE ONLY TEAM THAT CAN BLOCK 469
WE CAN REACH UP AND DEFLECT BALLS AWAY FROM THEIR MECHANISM AND TOWARDS OUR OWN SIDE.

Legally? How?

OP: If you need info on the rest of the teams, I can give you unofficial, no-guarantees info that's as good as my memory.

Originally Posted by pwnageNick

-Only working effective vacuum in all of FRC

News to me.

[ttldomination]

Originally Posted by pwnageNick

Only working effective vacuum in all of FRC

I think there were a lot of teams that had effective vacuums, but they accepted the rollers after they saw how dominant they were.

- Sunny

[pwnageNick]

Legally? How?

Well, I suppose just like 469 gets, we would get 1 penalty for extending beyond the height parameters for the normal robot size configuration, but the penalty that we get and the penalty they get would be cancelled out. Other then that, we are not breaking any rules by doing this. We would simply be able to extend our arm that we hang with because it can extend at an angle, which would therefore allow us to block balls above them and deflect the balls towards our alliances offensive zone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pwnageNick
-Only working effective vacuum in all of FRC
News to me.

I said effective. 2791 had a record of 15-12-5. They averaged 4.4 goals per match per alliance.They also did not ever make it to the finals. Finally, it does not look like they can hang. 2949 pwnage had a record of 18-8-5, we averaged 6.7 goals per match per alliance, made it all the way to the finals while facing harder opponents then that of 2791, and also can hang.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pwnageNick
Only working effective vacuum in all of FRC
I think there were a lot of teams that had effective vacuums, but they accepted the rollers after they saw how dominant they were.

- Sunny

This is very true Sunny. A good example is Wildstang. We went to their practice driving event before shipping day, and they saw our vacuum and thought it was really cool. Sure enough when we showed up for the Midwest Regional, they showed up with a vacuum. Although there's didn't end up working as well. Lets just say that it felt really good to defeat them in the semi-finals.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by pwnageNick

Well, I suppose just like 469 gets, we would get 1 penalty for extending beyond the height parameters for the normal robot size configuration, but the penalty that we get and the penalty they get would be cancelled out. Other then that, we are not breaking any rules by doing this. We would simply be able to extend our arm that we hang with because it can extend at an angle, which would therefore allow us to block balls above them and deflect the balls towards our alliances offensive zone.

I suppose you know how 469 works then? I suppose you also know the rules too?

Extending beyond the size limits is NOT a 1 point penalty it is a yellow card. 469 gets away with it because you are allowed to extend when in contact with your own tower. Additionally, 469 gets the ball nearly immediately off the return. The only way for you to touch the ball before them would be to grab near the ball return chute. A red card... So, you are still the "only one who can beat 469" eh? Sounds like a good way of getting DQ'd to me.

I said effective. 2791 had a record of 15-12-5. They averaged 4.4 goals per match per alliance.They also did not ever make it to the finals. Finally, it does not look like they can hang. 2949 pwnage had a record of 18-8-5, we averaged 6.7 goals per match per alliance, made it all the way to the finals while facing harder opponents then that of 2791, and also can hang.

Or, how to use a dictionary... Effective does not mean best. You may have sucked more but that does not mean you were the ONLY effective person with a vacuum.

[pwnageNick]

I suppose you know how 469 works then? I suppose you also know the rules too?

Extending beyond the size limits is NOT a 1 point penalty it is a yellow card. 469 gets away with it because you are allowed to extend when in contact with your own tower. Additionally, 469 gets the ball nearly immediately off the return. The only way for you to touch the ball before them would be to grab near the ball return chute. A red card... So, you are still the "only one who can beat 469" eh? Sounds like a good way of getting DQ'd to me.

I'm sorry I misspoke. Yellow Card NOT penalty. But a yellow card does not get you DQ'd, not does it lose you a point. And as far as being able to block them, there far enough under the ball return that our arm can be right over their catcher and deflect them away without touching the ball return, therefore NOT resulting in a DQ. And I never said taht we were the only ones that could beat 469. I said we were the only ones that could block them (meaning their ball return actions).

Don't question whether I know the rules or not, you just have to think about what exactly each rule will then mean to the action your robot makes.

[pwnageNick]

Or, how to use a dictionary... Effective does not mean best. You may have sucked more but that does not mean you were the ONLY effective person with a vacuum.

First off, I agreed with Sunny that while we were not the only team with an effective vacuum before, we discussed that teams still switched the the backroller/pinchroller idea because it seemed to be working better and was more popular. And if your vacuum provides the best results (aka winning matches, scoring well, playoff runs) and that that was the teams goal- to get the best results, then effective would be the right word.

[pwnageNick]

Well, if you want to call out my team's design as ineffective, I'll go ahead and address those points.

1. The mechanism is effective (I assumed "effective vacuum" meant "the vacuum controlled balls well"). Here's a picture of the robot holding the ball.

2. At WPI we were not at top form by any stretch, so I generally consider Connecticut performance to be indicative of my team's robot's true strength. At CT, our team's alliances averaged 6.3 goals per match, not counting a few missed DOGMA goals in the semis. We played opponents roughly as tough as you guys (177, 1124, 694, 175, 383, 1501 vs 16, 1732, 1625, 111, 71, 2949).

3. There are many, many, many effective vacuum robots in FRC. 78 was the #2 seed on Galileo and was just inches away from winning GSR. 20 (vac not shown) won WPI with one that they ultimately replaced, and they helped 2791 with their vacuum design. 25 had by far the best vacuum of 2010, as it could grab balls from more than 6 inches away due to some magic I hope to understand someday. 571 wasn't particularly effective on field due to a lot of bad luck, but they had a quality vacuum and had the gracious professionalism to give a unit to 2791 as an upgrade for CT when we had an unfortunate malfunction. There are many, many vacuums in FIRST that are both effective in function, and mounted on robots that are effective in competition. Did you know that 25 lost only one match until the Championship?

Also, just a fair warning. Your anti-469 strategy will get you a Yellow Card your first match and disqualify you every other match (Pro Tip: Two Yellow Cards = 1 Red Card). You guys have an effective robot otherwise, so I would focus on doing what you do well rather than breaking the rules and calling out other teams.

First off, I was not looking to call out your team Chris. From what I've seen your team looks pretty awesome and I hope that some day our teams will meet (although we are somewhat far away from eachother). Some one presented me with an argument with your team as proof so I compared our teams. It was nothing against your team at all.

And a question, only because I did not attend Atlanta, though I don't know if you did, but how many of the teams that you mentioned did not end up switching to a backroller/pinchroller?

And finally as far as the 469 topic goes, I wan't saying it would be used every match, but if really needed, it is indeed possible with our robot. I was just throwing it out there purely because there are not many other teams who even have a chance of blocking them.

PS- Thank you for calling our robot an "effective robot". That's very appreciated. I would say that your's is too.

[pwnageNick]

Team 1519 was 34-11-3. They averaged 7.7 points per match per alliance. They won 1 regional and were finalists at the other. They were the 5th seed in Archimedes.

Team 78 was 20-8-6. They average 7.8 points per match per alliance. They were finalists in 1 regional and 2nd seed in Galileo. They can hang.

Team 25 was 41-5-2. They averaged 10.6 points per match per alliance. They won 2 regionals and were championship division semifinalists. They can hang. They beat your highest score of 12 in 15 different matches.

Joe, thanks for bringing this to my attention. Besides 25, did 1519 and 78 keep those vacuums throughout the season?

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by pwnageNick

I'm sorry I misspoke. Yellow Card NOT penalty. But a yellow card does not get you DQ'd, not does it lose you a point. And as far as being able to block them, there far enough under the ball return that our arm can be right over their catcher and deflect them away without touching the ball return, therefore NOT resulting in a DQ. And I never said taht we were the only ones that could beat 469. I said we were the only ones that could block them (meaning their ball return actions).

Don't question whether I know the rules or not, you just have to think about what exactly each rule will then mean to the action your robot makes.

You are right of course, a Yellow Card does not mean you are DQ'd immediately. It means if you do it again you are DQ'd. So, let us put you in an Elim match against 469: Match 1 - Yellow Card. Let us assume you win. Match 2 - Red Card for trying it AGAIN. L (In the elims your entire alliance is DQ'd remember?) Match 3 - Now you have to play them without the ability to "stop" them. Seems to me your "strategy" in addition to being half baked is not very effective. Amazing what happens when you think more than one match at a time isn't it?

As long as you demonstrate a lack of knowledge of the rules I will continue to question whether you know them and will treat you accordingly.

Edit, while we are talking about it. 2337 had a vacuum. They also had a roller. They were 40-18-6 and had a high score of 19. They also hang... and redirect... yup, sorry, not effective... Guess Ann Arbor was a fluke.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by pwnageNick

I said effective.

Well, if you want to call out my team's design as ineffective, I'll go ahead and address those points.

1. The mechanism is effective (I assumed "effective vacuum" meant "the vacuum controlled balls well"). Here's a picture of the robot holding the ball.

2. At WPI we were not at top form by any stretch, so I generally consider Connecticut performance to be indicative of my team's robot's true strength. At CT, our team's alliances averaged 6.3 goals per match, not counting a few missed DOGMA goals in the semis. We played opponents roughly as tough as you guys (177, 1124, 694, 175, 383, 1501 vs 16, 1732, 1625, 111, 71, 2949).

3. There are many, many, many effective vacuum robots in FRC. 78 was the #2 seed on Galileo and was just inches away from winning GSR. 20 (vac not shown) won WPI with one that they ultimately replaced, and they helped 2791 with their vacuum design. 25 had by far the best vacuum of 2010, as it could grab balls from more than 6 inches away due to some magic I hope to understand someday. 571 wasn't particularly effective on field due to a lot of bad luck, but they had a quality vacuum and had the gracious professionalism to give a unit to 2791 as an upgrade for CT when we had an unfortunate malfunction. There are many, many vacuums in FIRST that are both effective in function, and mounted on robots that are effective in competition. Did you know that 25 lost only one match until the Championship?

Also, just a fair warning. Your anti-469 strategy will get you a Yellow Card your first match and disqualify you every other match (Pro Tip: Two Yellow Cards = 1 Red Card). You guys have an effective robot otherwise, so I would focus on doing what you do well rather than breaking the rules and calling out other teams.

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by pwnageNick

I said effective. 2791 had a record of 15-12-5. They averaged 4.4 goals per match per alliance.They also did not ever make it to the finals. Finally, it does not look like they can hang. 2949 pwnage had a record of 18-8-5, we averaged 6.7 goals per match per alliance, made it all the way to the finals while facing harder opponents then that of 2791, and also can hang.

Team 1519 was 34-11-3. They averaged 7.7 points per match per alliance. They won 1 regional and were finalists at the other. They were the 5th seed in Archimedes.

Team 78 was 20-8-6. They average 7.8 points per match per alliance. They were finalists in 1 regional and 2nd seed in Galileo. They can hang.

Team 25 was 41-5-2. They averaged 10.6 points per match per alliance. They won 2 regionals and were championship division semifinalists. They can hang. They beat your highest score of 12 in 15 different matches.