Go to Post I thanked the tradesmen on our team the same way i do ever year with a handshake and a "thanks for helping us guys", - Mike Schroeder [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Electrical > CAN
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-06-2010, 00:09
kamocat's Avatar
kamocat kamocat is offline
Test Engineer
AKA: Marshal Horn
FRC #3213 (Thunder Tech)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: May 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Tacoma
Posts: 894
kamocat is just really nicekamocat is just really nicekamocat is just really nicekamocat is just really nicekamocat is just really nice
Send a message via AIM to kamocat Send a message via MSN to kamocat
Do black jaguars come with functional CAN firmware?

Are the black jaguars addressable via CAN out-of-the-box?
I understand there is a firmware update that's supposed to happen for FRC use, but that must be done with either CAN or jtag.
Is there some way to update firmware over serial that doesn't use the CAN bus?
__________________
-- Marshal Horn
Reply With Quote
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-06-2010, 01:35
EricVanWyk EricVanWyk is offline
Registered User
no team
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,597
EricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to EricVanWyk
Re: Do black jaguars come with functional CAN firmware?

Marshall -

There is a good chance I'm about to answer the wrong question. Please don't hesitate to correct me.

The black jaguars can be updated over serial without any CAN bus connections. Simply plug the serial adaptor (the 6 conductor blackwire) in to your laptop and load new firmware.
Reply With Quote
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-06-2010, 11:09
kamocat's Avatar
kamocat kamocat is offline
Test Engineer
AKA: Marshal Horn
FRC #3213 (Thunder Tech)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: May 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Tacoma
Posts: 894
kamocat is just really nicekamocat is just really nicekamocat is just really nicekamocat is just really nicekamocat is just really nice
Send a message via AIM to kamocat Send a message via MSN to kamocat
Re: Do black jaguars come with functional CAN firmware?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricVanWyk View Post
Marshal -

There is a good chance I'm about to answer the wrong question. Please don't hesitate to correct me.

The black jaguars can be updated over serial without any CAN bus connections. Simply plug the serial adaptor (the 6 conductor blackwire) in to your laptop and load new firmware.
You mean with the BDC-COMM? I'm pretty sure that goes through CAN. (That is, the data goes from the serial line in to the processor, out the master CAN controller, and into the slave CAN controller, and then into the processor. When nothing is hooked up to the serial port, only the slave CAN controller is used.)
Is there another utility you're referring to?

(You are correct, this is my secondary question if the answer to the first question is "no").
__________________
-- Marshal Horn

Last edited by kamocat : 10-06-2010 at 11:18.
Reply With Quote
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-06-2010, 12:06
EricVanWyk EricVanWyk is offline
Registered User
no team
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,597
EricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to EricVanWyk
Re: Do black jaguars come with functional CAN firmware?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kamocat View Post
You mean with the BDC-COMM? I'm pretty sure that goes through CAN. (That is, the data goes from the serial line in to the processor, out the master CAN controller, and into the slave CAN controller, and then into the processor. When nothing is hooked up to the serial port, only the slave CAN controller is used.)
Is there another utility you're referring to?

(You are correct, this is my secondary question if the answer to the first question is "no").
BDC-COMM goes through Serial to a Black Jaguar, which translates to CAN. If you are talking to a single Black Jaguar, it just uses serial.
Reply With Quote
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-06-2010, 18:39
kamocat's Avatar
kamocat kamocat is offline
Test Engineer
AKA: Marshal Horn
FRC #3213 (Thunder Tech)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: May 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Tacoma
Posts: 894
kamocat is just really nicekamocat is just really nicekamocat is just really nicekamocat is just really nicekamocat is just really nice
Send a message via AIM to kamocat Send a message via MSN to kamocat
Re: Do black jaguars come with functional CAN firmware?

Okay, I see what you're saying. There's only one CAN transceiver.
Let me see if I can update the firmware without having to address a device number.
__________________
-- Marshal Horn
Reply With Quote
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-06-2010, 19:03
kamocat's Avatar
kamocat kamocat is offline
Test Engineer
AKA: Marshal Horn
FRC #3213 (Thunder Tech)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: May 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Tacoma
Posts: 894
kamocat is just really nicekamocat is just really nicekamocat is just really nicekamocat is just really nicekamocat is just really nice
Send a message via AIM to kamocat Send a message via MSN to kamocat
Re: Do black jaguars come with functional CAN firmware?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kamocat View Post
Okay, I see what you're saying. There's only one CAN transceiver.
Let me see if I can update the firmware without having to address a device number.
Okay, I got "Unable to contact the bootloader!". (I have BDC-COMM version 89)
I'm going to wait until my first question is answered before I try much harder to fix what might not be the problem. My Jaguars appear to be fully functional in every way except CAN or (perhaps) Serial communication.

Is it normal for Black Jaguars to echo back every serial message they get?
__________________
-- Marshal Horn

Last edited by kamocat : 10-06-2010 at 19:07.
Reply With Quote
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-06-2010, 19:26
biojae's Avatar
biojae biojae is offline
Likes Omni drives :)
AKA: Justin Stocking
FTC #5011 (BOT SQUAD) && FTC#72(Garage bots)&& FRC#0399 (Eagle Robotics)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Lancaster
Posts: 276
biojae is a jewel in the roughbiojae is a jewel in the roughbiojae is a jewel in the rough
Re: Do black jaguars come with functional CAN firmware?

Is this still the same adapter that you were using earlier?
It sounds like you don't have any communications to the Jaguar, and as such, the "Failed to contact the bootloader" error makes sense.

Have you tried other adapters?
And you are sure that the pinout is correct on your adapter?
Do you have more then one black jaguar? if so, try communicating with that one.
__________________
FTC Team 72 - No site
FRC Team 399 - http://www.team399.org
2010 Rockwell Collins Innovation in Control Award - (Use of the CAN bus, among other reasons) Phoenix, Arizona!
Reply With Quote
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-06-2010, 19:41
kamocat's Avatar
kamocat kamocat is offline
Test Engineer
AKA: Marshal Horn
FRC #3213 (Thunder Tech)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: May 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Tacoma
Posts: 894
kamocat is just really nicekamocat is just really nicekamocat is just really nicekamocat is just really nicekamocat is just really nice
Send a message via AIM to kamocat Send a message via MSN to kamocat
Re: Do black jaguars come with functional CAN firmware?

Quote:
Originally Posted by biojae View Post
Is this still the same adapter that you were using earlier?
It sounds like you don't have any communications to the Jaguar, and as such, the "Failed to contact the bootloader" error makes sense.

Have you tried other adapters?
And you are sure that the pinout is correct on your adapter?
Do you have more then one black jaguar? if so, try communicating with that one.
Yes to all.
I'll make it clear when this topic is open-ended.

I have two questions currently:
Do the Black Jaguars work with CAN out-of-the-box?
Is it normal for them to echo back serial data that is sent to them?

Another way of phrasing this is:
What is the functionality of the firmware on the Black Jaguars when they are shipped?

EDIT:
Upon re-looking at the getting started guide, it appears that the only difference between the default firmware and the FIRST firmware is the "untrusted mode".
I mis-spoke earlier in this post. I haven't tried a different adapters, but I have confirmed (with an oscilloscope) that my adapter is sending and receiving data.
__________________
-- Marshal Horn

Last edited by kamocat : 11-06-2010 at 15:34.
Reply With Quote
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-06-2010, 20:56
kamocat's Avatar
kamocat kamocat is offline
Test Engineer
AKA: Marshal Horn
FRC #3213 (Thunder Tech)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: May 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Tacoma
Posts: 894
kamocat is just really nicekamocat is just really nicekamocat is just really nicekamocat is just really nicekamocat is just really nice
Send a message via AIM to kamocat Send a message via MSN to kamocat
Re: Do black jaguars come with functional CAN firmware?

Well, I found the problem was with my adapter; the pin-out was backwards.
However, it's a commercial female RJ-12. It was manufactured with the colors backwards.
__________________
-- Marshal Horn
Reply With Quote
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-06-2010, 01:36
duane's Avatar
duane duane is offline
Registered User
FRC #0701 (RoboVikes)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Vacaville
Posts: 90
duane is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to duane
Re: Do black jaguars come with functional CAN firmware?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kamocat View Post
Well, I found the problem was with my adapter; the pin-out was backwards.
However, it's a commercial female RJ-12. It was manufactured with the colors backwards.
Umm, no actually, CAN is backwards. This was my #1 complaint about CAN. You cannot buy off the self cables. You have to make them. This is very error prone. We spent several weeks debugging CAN because we kept getting something wrong in the cabling. Once the cables were right it seemed to work fine.
__________________
Duane Murphy
Mentor - Software
Vanden Vikings FIRST Team 701
http://www.vandenrobotics.com
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
CAN with more than 2 Jaguars KillerGardevoir CAN 9 03-04-2010 01:20
New Black Jaguars? NyCityKId Electrical 27 02-04-2010 10:38
Bricked black Jaguar after bad firmware update FRC4ME CAN 13 19-02-2010 16:52
CAN Bus Control via Black Jaguars -- SOLVED!! taichichuan C/C++ 6 15-02-2010 15:11
Serial to CAN Gateway in new Black Jaguars? dmcguire3006 Electrical 54 26-01-2010 07:32


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 20:15.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi